The Cookout

Listen to reality. Policing is unhealthy for the police and the community. Like soldiers in the Armed Forces, they kill other people and then kill themselves. Does everybody have to die before we say to ourselves, "maybe we doing this wrong?"

Police exist as injustice enforcers because we are not doing the work, contemplating what true justice for all means and how to achieve it. You most certainly do not derive justice from injustice, which is what America's justice system claims to do.

I understand we need steppingstones. That's fine but let's not delude ourselves into believing if we get the same treatment as whites, the system would be just. The current method simply cannot produce justice for all (which is the only way justice can exist). It's impossible.

We might think we want it, but Police reform is not even close to what we actually want.

Jay said:

I think Police are necessary in a capitalist society especially one with minimal safety nets like the USA. But it becomes an issue in an unjust and racist country like the USA because it becomes another instrument used to oppress people with. So to me, the issue is injustice and not the police. If we got rid of the police, injustice will still be present. If we got rid of the police, racism will still exist…the only thing it would do is remove another tool for a racist and injustice system to mess with us.

In addition, people say abolish the police but offer no alternative. What type of mediator is there going to be in this police less society? Who is going to protect the haves from the have nots?

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I think you're exactly right. Police are a necessary steppingstone in this capitalist and racist society, but they ARE only that.

The alternative to the American justice system (which is really just a lottery) is listen to reality. The very existence of "have-nots" is injustice. It isn't based on anything, you're born into it with little odds of meaningfully overcoming it.
Every human has basic needs, we know what they are. If you are born here, you have an immutable right to a home, food and medicine for life. Just that would cut violent crime by at least two thirds. You put capitalism on top of that baseline. The rest is tweaking. Listen to reality, find out why whatever crime happens and legislate that reason out of existence. Justice can only happen before the injustice because we do not have time travel technology.


I say abolish the police because I believe they are the biggest obstacle to justice actually happening. They give us the notion that justice actually is happening, flawed or not. The truth is justice isn't happening at all. It's a zero-sum game. There is no such thing as justice for some.

"Defund the Police" wasn't a slogan somebody made up, it was reality (creation/God/the Universe) speaking to us through us because we are it. Reality gives us all the answers, we only have to listen. Ignore them and the problem just keeps resurfacing, stronger each time. We know this from our own personal experience.

sourgrapes said:

If everyone could own a gun and knew how to protect themselves, we'd need a lot less of them. Only in cities do you see major issues because their gun laws for civilians are so strict. I feel like the police have a place and I respect them but the ones who are crooked, they need to be dealt with and nothing is going to be done about it unless people start getting together and demanding change. I don't think abolishing them is the answer but I do think they should be appointed and voted in. I know that can open the door to some shifty stuff but it is worth trying. I would rather know the cops more personally than have people I never met in my life manning the laws in my streets.

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That's reasonable. They're a necessary stepping stone. But I would argue, the problems in policing is the evidence that policing is not the most efficient way to fight crime. They kill people and kill themselves, literally removing the population which perpetuates their existence and removing their own existence. I think reality is trying to tell us something. But I think you make reasonable points.

Mud City Savage said:

we need to change the rules and train police not to be this way. To de-escalate the situation without weapons or violence.

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Mud City Savage said:

Also, police that do break the law, should be sentenced accordingly. No special treatment should be given to police, and neither should their police bros be protecting them.

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Neither of those things happen because of this:

Mud City Savage said:

No matter what, we still need people out there to "protect and serve" and that's what police should do.

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As long as we see them as protecting us, we will treat them with kid gloves and they will have privileges we do not.

Mud City Savage said:

There's a lot that needs to be done, and it's been a slow process. Times are changing though, and I think we're getting to a point where the police force as we know it, will have to change or get the hell out.

But, I doubt changes will be made, and we'll continue to be stuck in this limbo.

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Agreed but there will not be limbo for too much longer, it seems.

Jay said:

Yeah but the problem is there is always going to be someone who has their basic needs met but also want what YOU have and you have to account for that.

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This isn't a fact. The policies described equal equals something larger than the sum of its parts. They are of a higher level of consciousness than we've ever seen. The logic we use at our current level this is this is absolutely true, actually does not apply. There would still be problems, but it is impossible for us to predict what they will be using our level of logic.

Jay said:

In other words, there is always going to be people willing to commit violence and you have to account for that.

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This is not actually a religious argument so pardon the content, but would Jesus commit violence? Jesus was not a separate God from us, he was us, only enlightened. You'd be hard-pressed to believe Jesus is the type of dude to go around robbing people (although the thought is FUCKING HILARIOUS). He was of a higher consciousness (peak human you could say). I'm not saying they would raise us to "peak human", but the policies I propose would raise the collective consciousness and we actually have no idea what that would look like.

Jay said:

Do you let separate communities set up their own defense forces? Well that could lead to inconsistent application of rules also areas with less funding will potentially have less resources to protect their citizens.

I would posit that most societies have some type of the police but it might be the citizens who are the law enforcement while the tribal chief is the judge. The Chief says "you f'd up" and the citizens beat that person's ass or kills them.

Look at 6ZEROS we have moderators here because we are going to need a level of staff that is able to keep order. Everyone on here has the same capabilities but despite that, there will still be others who come here and try to make it a bad experience for others and we have mods to dispose of them.

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I don't know.

Jay said:

I think policing makes sense and is necessary...if you don't have people willing to meet the violence with violence...then your society will cease to exist.

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It makes sense and is necessary at our current level of consciousness. Violence though, is not a given. We just think it is because that is all we've ever known. Reality will show us the way, we just have to be humble and listen.

Czharcus said:

Violence though, is not a given. We just think it is because that is all we've ever known. Reality will show us the way, we just have to be humble and listen.

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Let me clarify, violence is a given under specific circumstances (like no justice) but the closer you get to justice, the less violence there will be. Because there will be no reason for it. Humans do not do things for no reason.

Jay said:

All we are talking about is our current level of consciousness all the metaphysical stuff is deflection.

We’re also not talking about Jesus either so that’s irrelevant. We’re basically talking about building a table and you’re chiming in and saying tables are not real because the double slit experiment proves that a photon can be a wave or a particle depending on if there is an observer…which has nothing to do with us building a table within our current reality frame.

Based on 1,000s of years of human history we know for certain that humans will try to take from one another. People steal from one another within a particular in-group and in-groups work together to steal from other out-groups.

That is our reality and we have to deal in that. Talking about the 5th dimension and the teasaract sounds nice but it doesn’t get anything done.

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I respectfully disagree. I believe there has to be someone that knows what a table looks like so over the course of building it, we can cut the time of going in the wrong direction. The metaphysical stuff is literally real life. Our ignorance of it is the root of ALL of our problems.

We cannot build a table if we do not know physics. Likewise, we cannot build a better functioning society without knowing metaphysics. Thousands of years of human history of us not knowing metaphysics proves that.
People don't steal just because they want to steal. That's the surface layer. People steal because they believe in lack. The metaphysical is what's actually happening, everything else is an illusion.

I understand where you're coming from because I am also there for the most part so I get why this all seems irrelevant to you but upon further investigation of structures as opposed to the content that fills them, you will come to the exact same conclusions. I didn't think up these policies, they are merely what reality is saying and I just heard what is being said.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not making anyone or anything wrong. What is happening now is exactly what should be happening now because what's happening now is how we know which way to go. Reality itself will push us in the right direction, our only real choices are if we want to do it the easy way or the hard way. Are we going to listen now or do we gotta be on our death beds and have our children do it (I'm thinking probably the latter). I do not claim to know all the steps to get there (guessing is the best ANYONE can do), I just want to be another voice putting the ideas in the atmosphere. The collective will figure out the tweens (a little animation reference for you, haha [no, I'm not an animator, I went to an art college])

I'm thinking about what happens after the check is cut (or before, I don't know). This country must be overhauled, top to bottom. Like a going out of business sale, everything must go (being a little facetious here).

What we see today is the past. I'm trying to project the future so we can catch up to the present.