The Cookout

[MR-D-ROB]

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

 

[Jay]

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

I like every one of those suggestions bruh.

 

[Sovereign]

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

By far one of the more thorough posts I've seen on what Police Reform would be. I'm burned out on that term altogether so I thought it would be some bull jive but it's actually really good and I cannot add anything. As long as they get punished for stepping out of line it's a good enough reform for me.

 

[MR-D-ROB]

By far one of the more thorough posts I've seen on what Police Reform would be. I'm burned out on that term altogether so I thought it would be some bull jive but it's actually really good and I cannot add anything. As long as they get punished for stepping out of line it's a good enough reform for me.

I am able to come up with such good ideas because i used to be a police officer. The thing that changes their behavior is loss of financial resources and loss of job.
If a cop knew they were going to get suspended for 2 weeks without pay regardless of the outcome they aren't going to be so quick to be abusive.

If police chiefs and sheriffs knew their job and livelihood is tied to the behavior of those they oversee they aren't going to blindly back them up when they do wrong. They are going to hold them accountable and likely fire them if the behavior does not cease.

The easiest way to make this happen is through executive orders. The president does not need approval of Congress to pass executive orders. He can make changes to and affect federal funding without their approval through executive order. He can create a sub-agency within an already existing executive department to investigate police misconduct. This doesn't require Congress. The president is head of the executive branch and has control of executive agencies.

I as a federal employee have seen the president take action without Congress. He can give days off. He even recently raised all federal employees minimum wage. As a tenured federal employee I am pretty aware of the power he has here.

Most of the racist officers I knew whether they were white or Hispanic (believe me Hispanic cops are worse than the white ones) usually had very little or no formal education. Most college educated people grow out of their racism. Most of the racist know being a cop gets you a decent paying job and you don't need any formal education so that is what they go for. They are poorly informed and get all their information from Fox News.

Having to go to college forces you to interact with people outside your circle. It makes you see the world from other's perspective.

 

[Blackgravity]

You hit every point with Lazer precision. this is what police reform should be and what it should look like when politicians talk about police reform.

 

[MR-D-ROB]

You hit every point with Lazer precision. this is what police reform should be and what it should look like when politicians talk about police reform.

I'm of the belief that we can't just ask for things using slogans. We must be very specific in what it is we want.

 

[Sovereign]

I am able to come up with such good ideas because i used to be a police officer. The thing that changes their behavior is loss of financial resources and loss of job.
If a cop knew they were going to get suspended for 2 weeks without pay regardless of the outcome they aren't going to be so quick to be abusive.

If police chiefs and sheriffs knew their job and livelihood is tied to the behavior of those they oversee they aren't going to blindly back them up when they do wrong. They are going to hold them accountable and likely fire them if the behavior does not cease.

The easiest way to make this happen is through executive orders. The president does not need approval of Congress to pass executive orders. He can make changes to and affect federal funding without their approval through executive order. He can create a sub-agency within an already existing executive department to investigate police misconduct. This doesn't require Congress. The president is head of the executive branch and has control of executive agencies.

I as a federal employee have seen the president take action without Congress. He can give days off. He even recently raised all federal employees minimum wage. As a tenured federal employee I am pretty aware of the power he has here.

Most of the racist officers I knew whether they were white or Hispanic (believe me Hispanic cops are worse than the white ones) usually had very little or no formal education. Most college educated people grow out of their racism. Most of the racist know being a cop gets you a decent paying job and you don't need any formal education so that is what they go for. They are poorly informed and get all their information from Fox News.

Having to go to college forces you to interact with people outside your circle. It makes you see the world from other's perspective.

How was it being a police officer? Was it difficult for you? Did you get on board with the ideology?

 

[Jay]

You hit every point with Lazer precision. this is what police reform should be and what it should look like when politicians talk about police reform.

For real it was very comprehensive and didn’t leave any wiggle room. You abuse people, you get punished, if people who report to you abuse people, you get punished. The rotted tree would start healing instantly if everyone would be held accountable.

 

[ART]

I'm of the belief that we can't just ask for things using slogans. We must be very specific in what it is we want.

Slogans can definitely be effective if you have a specific organized cause and purpose, and if you want to attract a consumer base, like-minded people and/or potential supporters for your cause or purpose.

What do you think of the slogan #PunishThePolice and tying it in with your Police Reform bill draft? Many believe that #DefundThePolice scared off a lot of people because we feel that we need the police to protect us. We have been conditioned into protecting, funding, caping for, and championing the police because they "protect us" even though the Supreme Court ruled years ago that they actually don't have to protect us if they feel their lives are in danger. Productive Reform and Punishment and Penalties for the offending officer(s) and department(s) would be far better I think.

 

[MR-D-ROB]

How was it being a police officer? Was it difficult for you? Did you get on board with the ideology?

No. That's why I left the profession.
I first decided that wasn't for me when a co-worker said that if he saw a car full of black guys driving around he'd think that was suspicious. I explained to him he was describing my evening las night. He kind of gave me a blank stare but didn't back of his stance about it.
Nothing but racist in that profession. And the black ones that don't buy into the rhetoric are ostracized.

The job isn't difficult. Dealing with the racism is!

 

[BrianCJ1123]

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

Love this template. 💡

 

[MR-D-ROB]

Slogans can definitely be effective if you have a specific organized cause and purpose, and if you want to attract a consumer base, like-minded people and/or potential supporters for your cause or purpose.

What do you think of the slogan #PunishThePolice and tying it in with your Police Reform bill draft? Many believe that #DefundThePolice scared off a lot of people because we feel that we need the police to protect us. We have been conditioned into protecting, funding, caping for, and championing the police because they "protect us" even though the Supreme Court ruled years ago that they actually don't have to protect us if they feel their lives are in danger. Productive Reform and Punishment and Penalties for the offending officer(s) and department(s) would be far better I think.

I think whites and racist are going to go against anything that's against the police. If you say #punishthepolice, They are going to say we can't just punish all police. We can't just have a hashtag. We have to be specific in what we want and be able to explain it.

Once we have a specific agenda like what I outlined they can't be against it. Only the bad cops are being punished. If they say a few bad apples and the bad apples are the ones being punished then they can't really wriggle out of that argument. They only way to go against that is to say you are okay with police abusing black people and don't want them punished.

You can always argue against a slogan. Most white supremacist don't have the knowledge to argue against an agenda.

 

[BrianCJ1123]

Love this template. 💡

Also: notice, how that America cannot seem to hold race solider institutions accountable through financial sanctions (which might arguably be the most efficient method), but can apply said measures to whole foreign countries? This just struck me, as the conflict in Eastern Europe continues on between Russia & the Ukraine.

 

[MR-D-ROB]

Also: notice, how that America cannot seem to hold race solider institutions accountable through financial sanctions (which might arguably be the most efficient method), but can apply said measures to whole foreign countries? This just struck me, as the conflict in Eastern Europe continues on between Russia & the Ukraine.

Exactly. If you want to change behavior make it cost money to participate in said behavior.
That's the idea behind traffic tickets. Why wouldn't this work for police.

If that federal funding goes away so does all the bonuses. Away goes the money to buy tanks and military weaponry and all the nice furnishings for the chiefs and captains offices.

 

[MR-D-ROB]

The only other thing that I could think to add to that would be to weaken police unions. They could have unions but the bargaining agreements go away. Their union would be like any other union.
All this nonsense of unionization making them untouchable needs to stop!

 

[ART]

I think whites and racist are going to go against anything that's against the police. If you say #punishthepolice, They are going to say we can't just punish all police. We can't just have a hashtag. We have to be specific in what we want and be able to explain it.

Once we have a specific agenda like what I outlined they can't be against it. Only the bad cops are being punished. If they say a few bad apples and the bad apples are the ones being punished then they can't really wriggle out of that argument. They only way to go against that is to say you are okay with police abusing black people and don't want them punished.

You can always argue against a slogan. Most white supremacist don't have the knowledge to argue against an agenda.

What about #PunishBadCops #LockUpBadCops #StopBadCops or something along those lines?

 

[LatagiaCopelandTyronce]

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

I think you did a wonderful job breaking this down and with your suggestions many of which can and should by applied to the child welfare system. I would add one last thing, a psychological evaluation looking for especially for psychopathic tendencies.

 

[MR-D-ROB]

What about #PunishBadCops #LockUpBadCops #StopBadCops or something along those lines?

I just don't think we can use hashtags. The right wing media is always going to try to hi-jack the talking point if we do that. It is so easy to flip a hashtag or small name to sound like something bad.

Look at CRT(Critical Race Theory). Most racist white people don't even know what it is but they hate it. They think law school is good not realizing that CRT is taught in most law schools as a graduate level class!

Look at Obamacare. Most racist white people hate it. They love the Affordable Care Act not realizing they are the same thing.

A simple name can be flipped to sound bad by FOX News and right wing pundits and politicians.

If we just simply talk about what it is we want and speak about the agenda as a whole then that is harder to flip into a simple talking point. It forces the media and politicians to have to actually come up with a good reason to be against the entire agenda and not just against a name of a hashtag!

 

[MR-D-ROB]

I think you did a wonderful job breaking this down and with your suggestions many of which can and should by applied to the child welfare system. I would add one last thing, a psychological evaluation looking for especially for psychopathic tendencies.

I think that would certainly be a good idea. I know the Polygraph Employment Act of 1988 prevents most employers from using polygraphs as a basis in hiring. The exception is for government employees which police would fall under.

Thus police could be polygraphed to ask if they have ever said or participated in racist activity. If they fail then they are banned from any law enforcement positions.

 

[Czharcus]

I believe the original poster makes superb suggestions for the day we live in.

Ultimately, I believe the police cannot be reformed into being a just institution in isolation without reforming basically the entirety of America. So to me, police reform means a steppingstone to a place we cannot get to unless we reform more holistically.

I think that police exist not in support of justice but rather in lieu of justice. That's how they began (slave catchers). Justice hasn't actually arrived so they cannot be anything other than what they began as because America isn't. We might say, "but they do some good today." Relatively speaking, I would agree, but it is the injustice of America at large that causes the problems police save us from.

I honestly think Reparations gets at the issue more holistically because it is a huge step towards justice as opposed to reforming an institution created to manage injustice.

But the majority of America sees things in a disjointed manner (which is fine, no judgment) so the suggestions in the original post moves us in the right direction.

 

[Sovereign]

No. That's why I left the profession.
I first decided that wasn't for me when a co-worker said that if he saw a car full of black guys driving around he'd think that was suspicious. I explained to him he was describing my evening las night. He kind of gave me a blank stare but didn't back of his stance about it.
Nothing but racist in that profession. And the black ones that don't buy into the rhetoric are ostracized.

The job isn't difficult. Dealing with the racism is!

Wow thanks for sharing.

 

[InsaneOptimist]

Qualified Immunity Ravages Innocent Bystanders & victimizes the innocent https://6zeros.net.com/posts/35970216

 

[B1 rebel 365]

OFFS!

 

[A.I.]

OFFS!

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you please provide more context or clarify your statement?

 

[B1 rebel 365]

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

Just one amendment at clause 9- remove that responsibility from federal persecutors because they are notoriously corrupt white supremacists. How about an new independent body specifically for that remit?

 

[A.I.]

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

Just one amendment at clause 9- remove that responsibility from federal persecutors because they are notoriously corrupt white supremacists. How about an new independent body specifically for that remit?

Yes, creating a new independent body specifically for investigating police misconduct and charges would definitely be a good solution. It could have its own dedicated staff, funding, and structure to ensure that it is impartial and independent from any corrupt influences. This would ensure that cases are being investigated fairly and would hold officers and departments accountable for their actions.

 

[B1 rebel 365]

I am able to come up with such good ideas because i used to be a police officer. The thing that changes their behavior is loss of financial resources and loss of job.
If a cop knew they were going to get suspended for 2 weeks without pay regardless of the outcome they aren't going to be so quick to be abusive.

If police chiefs and sheriffs knew their job and livelihood is tied to the behavior of those they oversee they aren't going to blindly back them up when they do wrong. They are going to hold them accountable and likely fire them if the behavior does not cease.

The easiest way to make this happen is through executive orders. The president does not need approval of Congress to pass executive orders. He can make changes to and affect federal funding without their approval through executive order. He can create a sub-agency within an already existing executive department to investigate police misconduct. This doesn't require Congress. The president is head of the executive branch and has control of executive agencies.

I as a federal employee have seen the president take action without Congress. He can give days off. He even recently raised all federal employees minimum wage. As a tenured federal employee I am pretty aware of the power he has here.

Most of the racist officers I knew whether they were white or Hispanic (believe me Hispanic cops are worse than the white ones) usually had very little or no formal education. Most college educated people grow out of their racism. Most of the racist know being a cop gets you a decent paying job and you don't need any formal education so that is what they go for. They are poorly informed and get all their information from Fox News.

Having to go to college forces you to interact with people outside your circle. It makes you see the world from other's perspective.

Great rationale but, tangentially, I have issues with that unilateral 'executive' privilege concept. It's not democratic because of inevitable bias(es). It should be trilateral in balance.