The Cookout

I questioned Christianity early in life (12-13) i always wondered why God/Jesus was white, why no angels were ever black, why was the most segregated time and place in America was Sunday, in any church.
You had "white churches" and "Black churches"

After realizing (for me) it was nonsense to believe anything on faith, I looked at all religions differently. Faith by definition means to believe in something with no evidence of the claim(s) to be true.
Before slavery in America, there was no such thing as a Black Christian.

I don't have to be part of a "denomination" to believe in the bible. As a matter of fact none of this "denomination" doctrine exists in the bible.

Jay said:

But that's part of my point.

If it is factual, why do so many people read the Bible and come away with their own definitions? Then they take their definition of it and proselytize it while downing everyone else's definition?

If I say "Airplanes are able to fly" you cannot disagree agree with it and be factual at the same time. Airplanes being able to fly is a defining characteristic of airplanes and something we can objectively agree upon.

Why is no objective agreement on the Bible? Why are there no irrefutable facts that even Christians do not argue?

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People don't even agree on basic stuff, it's not a surprise they wouldn't agree about the bible. Even the apostles who walked with Christ had disagreements.

Jay said:

That's true but that's not addressing my concern:



What is the objective definitive accepted truth in the Bible that all the theologians agree upon? Not laymen, the theologian class.

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I'm not a theologian so i can't answer.

Blackgravity said:

I questioned Christianity early in life (12-13) i always wondered why God/Jesus was white, why no angels were ever black, why was the most segregated time and place in America was Sunday, in any church.
You had "white churches" and "Black churches"

After realizing (for me) it was nonsense to believe anything on faith, I looked at all religions differently. Faith by definition means to believe in something with no evidence of the claim(s) to be true.
Before slavery in America, there was no such thing as a Black Christian.

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Moses' wife Zipporah was a Cushite
The Ethiopian that Paul met on the road was Black....I

Jay said:

***This is not a Christianity bashing thread.***

The Question:

How can Christians claim their doctrine to be undisputed fact if they have been unable to reach a consensus as a religion?

Christianity is the pre-eminent Abrahamic Faith in the Western World and its adherents promote it as the undisputed word of the one and only creator of the universe. If we accept this at face value, why is there so much dissension within their ranks?

We'll address 4 of the 6 major denominations:

Catholicism
Thought of Protestants as heretics and murdered them.
Deemed the Pope to be the closest man to God. Believe Jesus is one man of two natures, human nature and divine nature.
Believe you pray through the Virgin Mary and the Saints.

Protestantism
Felt the Catholic Church was corrupt and that the Pope was was the anti-christ.
Don't believe in praying through Virgin Mary or the Saints.

Eastern Orthodoxy (Orthodox Catholic Church)
Second largest Christian Church and is in line with Catholicism except it does not recognize the Pope.

Oriental Orthodoxy
Typical only agree with the first 3 ecumenical councils.
This is the form of Christianity sprouting from Ethiopia and they reject the Council of Chalcedon.

​

Each of these major denominations disagree with one another. In addition, each of these have subdivisions within each as they disagree with one another. You have Chalcedonian and Non-Chalcedonian denominations, Trinitarian and Non-Trinitarian, and etc. Christianity doesn't even have its story straight so how can you proselytize a truth that is not unified?

We can easily look at the Ecumenical Councils to see how the story was shaped by the will of man. Here are two pivotal ecumenical councils

First Council of Nicaea (Emperor Constantine I)
Established that Jesus Christ was God with the Father. Single Nature.
This was to combat Arius and his teachings that Jesus merely a created. Arius was exiled after.

Council of Chalcedon (Emperor Marcian)
Established that Jesus Christ was one man of two natures. Two Natures.
This caused the Oriental Orthodoxy split.

Everyone that disagreed with the canon was exiled or killed so how can you be sure this was the truth? The Emperors convoked these for political reasons. Is it not concerning that Romans got together to determine what was and was not apart of the religion you follow? Wouldn't these councils be man changing God's word? If the Romans couldn't agree and no one else can agree then how effective is it?

If a remote is the color red, it is a fact. I cannot interpret it as any color other than red and be factual. So if the Bible is fact why do all these churches disagree on it? Not only do Protestants disagree with Catholics, they even disagree with each other which is why you have Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, Pentacostals, Adventists, etc.

If you're Black American and read the King James Bible you're reading a book that int through the following?​

African Religion > Greek Interpretations > Adopted by Constantine in Rome/Changed through the ecumenical council > Changed by Germans Protestant Reformation (Removed 7 Books) > King James Bible (Not translated based on original texts).

So please answer in real world English not parables, if you can't even agree internally, why do you think it's fact?

If faith is the reason please just say so. ​

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To briefly summarize: After the death of the last Apostle is was foretold that the Christian Congregation would be overtaken by the Apostasy for a number of Centuries. Acts 20:29

The groups listed do not closely follow the teachings of Jesus or The Scriptures. Matthew 7:15

Jay said:

That's true but that's not addressing my concern:



What is the objective definitive accepted truth in the Bible that all the theologians agree upon? Not laymen, the theologian class.

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In Matthew 23:8 Jesus speaks out against a clergy, laity separation. The idea itself is therefore not Christian.

1 Peter 1:20 Describes how people may not interpret the Bible. God provides the meaning of the Scriptures.

I dont claim ANY Denominations. I follow truth.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_iXe-iuAVs

Blackgravity said:

I questioned Christianity early in life (12-13) i always wondered why God/Jesus was white, why no angels were ever black, why was the most segregated time and place in America was Sunday, in any church.
You had "white churches" and "Black churches"

After realizing (for me) it was nonsense to believe anything on faith, I looked at all religions differently. Faith by definition means to believe in something with no evidence of the claim(s) to be true.
Before slavery in America, there was no such thing as a Black Christian.

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The Bible tells us that Jesus wasn't white. Rev. 1:12-16 says that Jesus's hair was like wool, and his feet the color of burned brass. Also, when Mary needed to hide to hide Jesus from King Herod's men, she took him to Africa to blend in with the locals. A cracker would've stood out like a sore thumb. That picture of Malibu Ken isn't Jesus; white Jesus is a tool of the wicked, he is not God's son.
God said that no man may see his face. However, God made man in His own image. Let the record reflect that the earliest human remains were found in Africa. I.E. the skeletal remains of a Black person defined whom the Creator made in His image.
One more point, I learned as a youth that the book of Exodus is a book on Black history, since most of it takes place in Africa, and deals with Black liberation.
As far as segregated churches, I think that's more of a societal thing. America was segregated; so our churches, schools, and businesses followed suit. Now that segregation is over, Blacks & whites tend to go to the church that grandma went to, or the one that's in the neighborhood.

Jay said:

But the question is, is any of it true? If the Romans have a documented history of editing the story of the Bible, the British made a translation of it based off a translation, how can you even believe it? In addition, why are there so many different interpretations? Why is there a disagreement about Jesus' race? \

If there are different interpretations it's probably because it's written in a vague sense. But if it's written in a vague sense and it's written by God then that brings upon other questions.

1. Did he write it vaguely on purpose?
2. Did he write it vaguely on accident?

Well if Number 1 is true, it means he created a eternal pit of fire for us to be in for not following his rules but the rule book was written in a way that allows for easy confusion. Why would someone who loves you put you in a situation like that? I don't want you to get burned but I'm going to write the instructions on how not to get burned in a riddle format that you and everyone else is going to argue over.

If Number 2 is the case, he can't be perfect because he made a glaring mistake in writing the book that helps us find salvation in the system he himself has created.

The logical answer to me is that men wrote it. It has all the quirks and downsides of man not of a God.

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You're really overthinking things.
Firstly, God didn't write the Bible, several men did. The names of the Biblical books denote either the name of the author, or the recipient (the exception would be names like Proverbs or Acts). Therefore we know off the bat that men wrote the books, and the Bible is a copendium of those books. It's simple.
As to why there is a disagreement about Jesus's race; I answered that in my first post, but ICYMI: View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFUgN6mWgjU&t=148s

Believe what you want. Look at it like the CDC COVID guidelines:
Some people believe in masks and vaccines,
Some people believe only in masks,
Some people believe in natural immunity, and
Some people believe that COVID doesn't exist.
You may believe that the Bible was written by God,
You may believe that it was written by man,
You may believe that Jesus was white,
You may believe that Jesus was brown,
You may believe that Jesus was Black.
I heard a guy online even say (with his full chest) that Jesus was emerald green.
My suggestion would be for you to read a few translations of the Bible, and form your own conclusion.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxqLv49Vws

Jay said:

Ok so it’s not divine, it’s written by man just like Lord of the Rings. I can agree with that. Now would most Christians agree with you? I don’t think so. They would say the men were just a conduit that God spoke through not that they wrote it.

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Most Christians don't know that the Bible forbids the consumption of pork and shellfish. Most Christians don't know that the Bible details the origins of Islam. Most Christians don't read the Holy Bible.🤷🏾‍♂️

God is good.

Jay said:

What does this have to do with the question being asked?

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If you want to really understand the word you have to seek Him.

Jay said:

The OP says:

So please answer in real world English not parables, if you can't even agree internally, why do you think it's fact?

If faith is the reason please just say so.

Are you saying that you just have faith that's it's true?

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Basically yes. Nobody can prove it 100% to be true, you're either a believer or something else.

Jay said:

If it is factual, why do so many people read the Bible and come away with their own definitions? Then they take their definition of it and proselytize it while downing everyone else's definition?

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Ego, the part of us that only knows the physical part of us. It distorts spirituality based on self-preservation of the physical body.

Jay said:

Why is no objective agreement on the Bible? Why are there no irrefutable facts that even Christians do not argue?

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Self-preservation. Many times, the ego believes it is not beneficial to self to agree with/be equal to someone else.

Jay said:

1. Did he write it vaguely on purpose?
2. Did he write it vaguely on accident?

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I believe that because God is an experience that cannot be put into words that anyone could be convinced by, finding Him is not a linear, step-by-step process, "vagueness" is unavoidable. They could only point to Him and when you are pointing, people can easily believe you are pointing to something you're not pointing at.

If I'm pointing at a glass of water, isn't it understandable some people could think I'm pointing at the glass, others, the water, still others, the 2 parts hydrogen?

Kanu said:

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

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I think this idea (fear of the Lord) is widely misunderstood. I believe people understand it as a third person/entity will hurt them if they do "wrong" when it is the "God principal"/laws of the universe that causes you to hurt yourself when you do "wrong" (i.e: when I judge someone else, I simultaneously judge myself, inevitably causing myself the same pain I was attempting to inflict outwardly).

Unrelated, yet related thoughts:
White people had to become less human to treat black people as less than human. They had to forgo their own identities and become "white" in order to take black people's identities. They have to live in a society without justice in order to deny black people justice.


God's laws cannot be broken. This is why I believe "morality" is a stepping stone, but ultimately superfluous once we realize we have to stab ourselves to stab someone else.

For Fucks sake Jay ....Dramatic much?

Jay said:

How can Christians claim their doctrine to be undisputed fact if they have been unable to reach a consensus as a religion?

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BECAUSE THEY DON'T PLAY ON THE SAME DAMN TEAM!!!! THEY JUST PLAY IN THE SAME CONFERENCE/DIVISION/LEAGUE OR WHATEVER!!!
It's nothing but a bunch of rabid fans screaming "Our team is #1!!!"
(I acknowledge you're not a sports fan, but you are a former athlete so I don't expect this to be lost on you)

Meanwhile, they sit there battling, arguing and positioning themselves for intergalactic theological supremacy like some religious Rebels vs. religious Imperials.
*Cue the DeathStar Music*



Christians ultimately aren't trying to claim religious doctrine for the sake of God's glory. It's all for the sake of their own fucking glory. So they can say I'm on the best team in the "God Conference" and my team won the religious Super Bowl this season! WOOOOOOO GO TEAM!!!!!!!!

So the reason there isn't a consensus is because they don't give a shit about God. Let's be frank here most Christians don't even believe in God. They're just afraid of the devil, the prospect of burning in hell and all that other stupid bullshit White Supremacist slave owning preachers fed our kidnapped ancestors, who then fed it to their kids, until the bullshit got to us.


Never once did it occur to our forefathers and foremothers to ask, "Could it be maybe the 'devil' in this story is white people all along? And we never should have been listening to them or believing anything they were forcing us to believe, in the first place?" Half were scared for their and their families' lives and the other half were brain-washed!! Hell, our people weren't even subscribing to what white people called Christianity before our kidnappings or White people wouldn't have wasted their time going through the trouble of converting them!

But these fanatics ain't ready to have this real-shit, Matrix red pill conversation. But it's a free country, they can keep sucking that ever-lasting Gobstopper blue pill, all the live-long day.

The different denominations people subscribe to are merely them subscribing to what most reflects those individuals' personal feelings regarding their view of the world. Just like my view of the world is through a Scarlet and Gray Buckeye-decal lens and a bunch of idiots from a cesspit 3 hours northwest of me sees the world through a misguided hue of piss stains and blue streaks. Plain and simple, Christians give a shit about themselves and that their "team" is the one who's more right and the other ones are mostly wrong.

The torah was written by an old isrealite and designed to keep his people in line as they christopher collomassed the middle east. Then it becomes a slave owners manual. In other words it is post op written justification for their war crimes and to support a myth of jewish supremacy. This is where all the weird rules come from about genital mutilation, uncleanliness, dietary rituals. Its all designed to make the isrealites think they are getting orders from god and to keep women and slaves in line.

Aftter however many years rome invaded israel, and the new testament was written in greek. and this was designed to break the myth of jewish suppremecy and to make the minority isrealites pay their taxes to ceaser. This is how you go from the jewish god of war who says kill children, rape women take land to the meek jesus who says pay your taxes. All the shyt were seeing now is the dominant class ie white evangelicals finding pieces to support their narrative to scare the slaves into not killing themselves or the rich thats why the book dantes inferno was written a bs idea of hell. In other words it adjusts itself based on who is in control. Thats why there are a million denominations that cant agree. If there was a benevolent god slavery would not have happened or atleast not for 400 years.

TAILIANNA said:

If there was a benevolent god slavery would not have happened or atleast not for 400 years.

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If a certain group of people rejected God and followed their own entities why would God help such a group of people?

If one’s doctrine is thought of as an indisputable fact, then how can they call it their faith? If something is a fact, then you don’t need faith to believe it...
🤔

Kanu said:

If a certain group of people rejected God and followed their own entities why would God help such a group of people?

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Im sorry are u suggesting black people rejected god? And then suggesting that this rejection is justification to make at least 10 generations suffer massive abuse. Other entities or not this would reduce your benevolent god into a pouting child

TAILIANNA said:

Im sorry are u suggesting black people rejected god? And then suggesting that this rejection is justification to make at least 10 generations suffer massive abuse. Other entities or not this would reduce your benevolent god into a pouting child

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I'm not suggesting, the bible is showing that.

1 Kings 9

6 But if you or your sons at all turn from following Me, and do not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, 7 then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them; and this house which I have consecrated for My name I will cast out of My sight. Israel will be a proverb and a byword among all peoples. 8 And as for this house, which is exalted, everyone who passes by it will be astonished and will hiss, and say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land and to this house?’ 9 Then they will answer, ‘Because they forsook the Lord their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, and worshiped them and served them; therefore the Lord has brought all this calamity on them.’ ”


1 Kings 14

15 For the Lord will strike Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water. He will uproot Israel from this good land which He gave to their fathers, and will scatter them beyond the River, because they have made their wooden images, provoking the Lord to anger. 16 And He will give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who sinned and who made Israel sin.”

Kanu said:

I'm not suggesting, the bible is showing that.

1 Kings 9

6 But if you or your sons at all turn from following Me, and do not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, 7 then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them; and this house which I have consecrated for My name I will cast out of My sight. Israel will be a proverb and a byword among all peoples. 8 And as for this house, which is exalted, everyone who passes by it will be astonished and will hiss, and say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land and to this house?’ 9 Then they will answer, ‘Because they forsook the Lord their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, and worshiped them and served them; therefore the Lord has brought all this calamity on them.’ ”


1 Kings 14

15 For the Lord will strike Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water. He will uproot Israel from this good land which He gave to their fathers, and will scatter them beyond the River, because they have made their wooden images, provoking the Lord to anger. 16 And He will give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who sinned and who made Israel sin.”

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ya but the bible is written by jewish suprremistists so lets deal with the reality of the situation. Im god and i come to you in africa and I demonstate my ability to change your whole life. I get you food, i get you a woman, and i stop your teeth from hurting because this is before dentists and most people died from teeth issues. Then i say i will keep you and your land good and all you have to do is follow me. And these africans aka you were like nah fuk that im going to worship this stick. Then i go to israel and tell them to invade a bunch of countrys and rape their women and take others as slaves. However many years later slavery comes to africa and god is holding this grudge over the last time he revealed himself and hooked us up and we were like nah. And then he proceeds to let me and my daughter and my daughter daughter etc go through hell. This makes your god a child and a massachist. But numbers 31 already revealed that.

Vengeance on the Midianites​

31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

19 “Anyone who has killed someone or touched someone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives. 20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood.”

21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, “This is what is required by the law that the Lord gave Moses: 22 Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead 23 and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And whatever cannot withstand fire must be put through that water. 24 On the seventh day wash your clothes and you will be clean. Then you may come into the camp.”

Dividing the Spoils​

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 “You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord’s part. 30 From the Israelites’ half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord’s tabernacle.” 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

36 The half share of those who fought in the battle was:

337,500 sheep, 37 of which the tribute for the Lord was 675;
38 36,000 cattle, of which the tribute for the Lord was 72;
39 30,500 donkeys, of which the tribute for the Lord was 61;
40 16,000 people, of whom the tribute for the Lord was 32.
41 Moses gave the tribute to Eleazar the priest as the Lord’s part, as the Lord commanded Moses.

42 The half belonging to the Israelites, which Moses set apart from that of the fighting men— 43 the community’s half—was 337,500 sheep, 44 36,000 cattle, 45 30,500 donkeys 46 and 16,000 people. 47 From the Israelites’ half, Moses selected one out of every fifty people and animals, as the Lord commanded him, and gave them to the Levites, who were responsible for the care of the Lord’s tabernacle.

TAILIANNA said:

ya but the bible is written by jewish suprremistist

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According to who?

TAILIANNA said:

and i stop your teeth from hurting because this is before dentists and most people died from teeth issues.

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Again, where did you get this information from?

TAILIANNA said:

And these africans aka you

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There is no "Africa" in the bible. Maybe you should read the book of Genesis from Abraham to Israel so you understand the origin of the israelites. They were not african.

TAILIANNA said:

Then i go to israel and tell them to invade a bunch of countrys and rape their women and take others as slaves

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The only reason God told Israel to invade Canaan was because the people living there were doing all kinds of disgusting and demonic acts, like sacrificing their own child to their gods.

TAILIANNA said:

However many years later slavery comes to africa

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Slavery happened everywhere, it's not exclusive to Africa.

TAILIANNA said:

And then he proceeds to let me and my daughter and my daughter daughter etc go through hell.

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I posted up there why it happened the way it did.

TAILIANNA said:

Vengeance on the Midianites​

31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

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Why don't you quote Numbers 25?

16 And the LORD said to Moses, 17 “Attack the Midianites and strike them dead. 18 For they assailed you deceitfully when they seduced you in the matter of Peor and their sister Cozbi, the daughter of the Midianite leader, the woman who was killed on the day the plague came because of Peor.”

The midianites wete plotting against Israel, that's why the Lord decided to punish them.

Kanu said:

According to who?



Again, where did you get this information from?


There is no "Africa" in the bible. Maybe you should read the book of Genesis from Abraham to Israel so you understand the origin of the israelites. They were not african.



The only reason God told Israel to invade Canaan was because the people living there were doing all kinds of disgusting and demonic acts, like sacrificing their own child to their gods.


Slavery happened everywhere, it's not exclusive to Africa.


I posted up there why it happened the way it did.


Why don't you quote Numbers 25?

16 And the LORD said to Moses, 17 “Attack the Midianites and strike them dead. 18 For they assailed you deceitfully when they seduced you in the matter of Peor and their sister Cozbi, the daughter of the Midianite leader, the woman who was killed on the day the plague came because of Peor.”

The midianites wete plotting against Israel, that's why the Lord decided to punish them.

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I didnt say that the isrealites were. I said black people are from africa so that is why i gave you an example of god coming to us and we rejecting him so he lets us suffer. After writing a book in a different land about the rules for our suffering. Ie the bible jewish suppremecist slave owners manual. That seems pretty evident as the whole thing refers to them as the chosen people.

Yes slavery happened everywhere because morality had not yet adjusted. We learn from our mistakes as humans and not because of a god but because of evoloution. Psychopathic tendencies for the most part are breeded out.

And israel was doing blood magic In its own scriptures there is many times people sacrifice things to god including humans. Story of jepidath for example. Do you have proof of any other culture you accuse of doing these things outside of your book? And do you not find it odd that gods punishment method of send in the isrealites is completly indisguishable from what a non god version of this would be. Did yaweh run out of mana? This is the equivelent of the us army invading africa because a voice said so.

Geoff said:

If one’s doctrine is thought of as an indisputable fact, then how can they call it their faith? If something is a fact, then you don’t need faith to believe it...
🤔

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"Seeing is believing." The way I understand spirituality is the reverse of that: "believing is seeing." You believe in Him 1st (faith), then He reveals Himself to you (as indisputable fact). It is this way because free will: if you do not want to believe He exists, He will not infringe upon your choice. (Of course the pronouns [He, Him] is just a concession; God is completely formless)

Czharcus said:

"Seeing is believing." The way I understand spirituality is the reverse of that: "believing is seeing." You believe in Him 1st (faith), then He reveals Himself to you (as indisputable fact). It is this way because free will: if you do not want to believe He exists, He will not infringe upon your choice. (Of course the pronouns [He, Him] is just a concession; God is completely formless)

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so its santa?

TAILIANNA said:

I said black people are from africa

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What is your definition for black people? The whole out of africa theory comes from "white" people.

TAILIANNA said:

i gave you an example of god coming to us and we rejecting him so he lets us suffer

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He didn't let us suffer, people chose that. it's called free will. So called "negroes" chose to follow the gods of the canaanites than the God that took them out of bondage in Egypt.

TAILIANNA said:

That seems pretty evident as the whole thing refers to them as the chosen people.

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Did you even read the New Testament?

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

TAILIANNA said:

And israel was doing blood magic In its own scriptures there is many times people sacrifice things to god including humans. Story of jepidath for example.

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Can you post this story of "jepidath" plese?

TAILIANNA said:

Do you have proof of any other culture you accuse of doing these things outside of your book?

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Aztec Human Sacrifice​

Sati is an ancient Hindu ritual where a woman chooses (or is coerced) to leap onto the funeral pyre of her husband after he has died. Today the practice is outlawed, but on very rare occasions, it still occurs. In 2006, BBC news reported that a woman, reportedly in her 40s, leapt onto the funeral pyre of her husband.

TAILIANNA said:

And do you not find it odd that gods punishment method of send in the isrealites is completly indisguishable from what a non god version of this would be. Did yaweh run out of mana? This is the equivelent of the us army invading africa because a voice said so.

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At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what i think, it's about facts.

Coming into my own understanding of the world I questioned Christianity (Not my faith) as an institution after reading Malcolm X, exploring the world more and questioning more. Not because I was rebellious but because I was ignorant. Black (of any religious body) Christians face an identity crisis, because this book, its philosophy, and scholars were taught to us as an act of submission for slavery.

There is so much division in Christianity because of ego, for the same there were different churches built in Europe as well as here, vanity.
Also, because Christians have never been able to produce the body of Christian and every they do, there is a media line to whiten him up. Versus other endorsed religions being based on physical being that lived and were buried in a specific places.

Kanu said:

What is your definition for black people? The whole out of africa theory comes from "white" people.


He didn't let us suffer, people chose that. it's called free will. So called "negroes" chose to follow the gods of the canaanites than the God that took them out of bondage in Egypt.


Did you even read the New Testament?

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


Can you post this story of "jepidath" plese?

Aztec Human Sacrifice​

Sati is an ancient Hindu ritual where a woman chooses (or is coerced) to leap onto the funeral pyre of her husband after he has died. Today the practice is outlawed, but on very rare occasions, it still occurs. In 2006, BBC news reported that a woman, reportedly in her 40s, leapt onto the funeral pyre of her husband.




At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what i think, it's about facts.

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Yes i have read the entire bible so your saying that god who does human sacrifice was upset at the astecs who also do human sacrifice. It seems the human sacrifice part isnt the issue and the real problem is who the human is sacrificed too. The story of jepidath is a human soldiar who promises to burn alive the next thing that comes out of his house if god lets him win a battle and that happened to be his daughter so ya know.

I thought black people being stole from africa is common knowledge. The bbc is a white suppremecist news organization do you have any thats actually credible. Hindu isnt that a indian ritual what does this have to with africa. And the drawings are cute but that just looks like murder in which case every culture ever has had a death penalty. Including israel who for example stoned lbgt, stoned disobedient children, poisoned women suspected of cheating, killed a guy for picking up a stick on sunday. I dont know how you can get to the nt when the ot says there was a world wide flood and that god got jelous because humans built a tower that was reaching into heaven so he smashed it and made everyone have different languages to make communiscation and cooperation more difficult ie the tower of babel. Which no that is crazy and clearly a juvenile attempt to explain how languages work.

Victorystatus said:

Coming into my own understanding of the world I questioned Christianity (Not my faith) as an institution after reading Malcolm X, exploring the world more and questioning more. Not because I was rebellious but because I was ignorant. Black (of any religious body) Christians face an identity crisis, because this book, its philosophy, and scholars were taught to us as an act of submission for slavery.

There is so much division in Christianity because of ego, for the same there were different churches built in Europe as well as here, vanity.
Also, because Christians have never been able to produce the body of Christian and every they do, there is a media line to whiten him up. Versus other endorsed religions being based on physical being that lived and were buried in a specific places.

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I'm having an issue coming to understand where you stand as of today.

Geoff said:

If one’s doctrine is thought of as an indisputable fact, then how can they call it their faith? If something is a fact, then you don’t need faith to believe it...
🤔

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You do when you secretly know there aren't any indisputable facts but your audience isn't smart enough or too scared to know better and ask this question.

Czharcus said:

"Seeing is believing." The way I understand spirituality is the reverse of that: "believing is seeing." You believe in Him 1st (faith), then He reveals Himself to you (as indisputable fact). It is this way because free will: if you do not want to believe He exists, He will not infringe upon your choice. (Of course the pronouns [He, Him] is just a concession; God is completely formless)

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Free Will would be for God to show itself to be true, confirm that the Bible is its word, and then allow us to conduct ourselves accordingly. In this situation, you are fully aware what the game is, who the organizer is, and what the risk/reward is.

In this system that Christians are proposing to Black Americans is, you are told about God by your SLAVE MASTER and confirmed it is the word of God by your pastor who asks you for money weekly.

What you're proposing is how individuals fall for cults and all other types of deviant thinking. You are asking people to forgo their logic and then hope to experience a spiritual awakening which is nonsensical.

The Spiritual Realm is not beyond the logical. You were given the ability to experience life though a logical, emotional, spiritual sense for a reason and it is because you need ALL OF THEM.

Victorystatus said:

There is so much division in Christianity because of ego, for the same there were different churches built in Europe as well as here, vanity.

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Right! This follows in line with what the analogy I was making about Christians don't give a shit about God. They only care about themselves. It's a bunch of fanatics, who are trying to convince other "players" that they're "team" is #1.

Lamont said:

Free Will would be for God to show itself to be true, confirm that the Bible is its word, and then allow us to conduct ourselves accordingly. In this situation, you are fully aware what the game is, who the organizer is, and what the risk/reward is.

In this system that Christians are proposing to Black Americans is, you are told about God by your SLAVE MASTER and confirmed it is the word of God by your pastor who asks you for money weekly.

What you're proposing is how individuals fall for cults and all other types of deviant thinking. You are asking people to forgo their logic and then hope to experience a spiritual awakening which is nonsensical.

The Spiritual Realm is not beyond the logical. You were given the ability to experience life though a logical, emotional, spiritual sense for a reason and it is because you need ALL OF THEM.

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exactly free will, is actually not even possible if you have free will then jump to the moon right now. Humans are limited by their race, gender, money, and connections. To suggest the idea of choosing between if you want fries with that at the restaurant is a joke. Free will is a convenient tool Christians invented to explain why their god is absent in the real world. Also if you read the bible faith is never a requirement god shows himself to people and in fact drunken wrestles someone for some reason, it is only now in the digital age that you are required to take these things by faith. Another issue is if you choose one god and say kill in his name for example stone the disobedient child you will go to prison. And when you die you may be answering to an entirely different god. This is why pascals wager does not work, you would need to avoid every religions version of the bad after life.

TAILIANNA said:

exactly free will, is actually not even possible if you have free will then jump to the moon right now. Humans are limited by their race, gender, money, and connections. To suggest the idea of choosing between if you want fries with that at the restaurant is a joke. Free will is a convenient tool Christians invented to explain why their god is absent in the real world. Also if you read the bible faith is never a requirement god shows himself to people and in fact drunken wrestles someone for some reason, it is only now in the digital age that you are required to take these things by faith. Another issue is if you choose one god and say kill in his name for example stone the disobedient child you will go to prison. And when you die you may be answering to an entirely different god. This is why pascals wager does not work, you would need to avoid every religions version of the bad after life.

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1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.


The Lord is good.

TAILIANNA said:

so its santa?

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Well, Santa is an idea within God so…

Czharcus said:

Well, Santa is an idea within God so…

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Santa is actually a pegan thing

Czharcus said:

Well, Santa is an idea within God so…

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D11jAEKgB2o


well actually its a pegan holiday, but my point was that if you dont believe in santa then it has no power. So it seems weird that yaweh has the same issue as a made up creature.

You raise some really good points. There is no way I can answer to your satisfaction. If you do not believe in God, there is no way anyone can convince you because it is your will that he does not exist. Therefore, to you, he never will.

Lamont said:

Free Will would be for God to show itself to be true, confirm that the Bible is its word, and then allow us to conduct ourselves accordingly. In this situation, you are fully aware what the game is, who the organizer is, and what the risk/reward is.

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I do not make many claims about the Bible, I have not read it, except to say I do know there are some truths in it. I believe it's mostly just misinterpretations and misunderstood contextualization that causes confusion.

From what I understand, Christians believe God is a separate being from them. That's not the way God revealed himself to me.

Yes, Free Will belongs to God but we are one with God which is basically saying we are all God and if we all knew this, which we can all know this, we would conduct ourselves accordingly automatically. But some of us don't know and don't want to know and as God, there is no other entity in the universe besides us that can infringe upon our free will to not know.

Lamont said:

In this system that Christians are proposing to Black Americans is, you are told about God by your SLAVE MASTER and confirmed it is the word of God by your pastor who asks you for money weekly.

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I am very sure this is correct. We often use things other people believe in but we do not to gain the upper hand in a game of self-preservation. Everything in the Bible is not true but that does not make what is true, untrue.

Were often told we have to go through a third party to get to God, when actually we all have access to God at all times because we are all God. These games we play with each other are just a result of us not knowing who we are. It's insanity from the highest perspective.

Lamont said:

What you're proposing is how individuals fall for cults and all other types of deviant thinking. You are asking people to forgo their logic and then hope to experience a spiritual awakening which is nonsensical.

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The hallmark of a cult is you can't question anything. To find God, you have to question EVERYTHING. You don't forgo anything other than the belief that you already know.

Lamont said:

The Spiritual Realm is not beyond the logical. You were given the ability to experience life though a logical, emotional, spiritual sense for a reason and it is because you need ALL OF THEM.

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But what logic? How do you know you are even using the logic to which the spiritual realm must adhere?

TAILIANNA said:

Santa is actually a pegan thing

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D11jAEKgB2o


well actually its a pegan holiday, but my point was that if you dont believe in santa then it has no power. So it seems weird that yaweh has the same issue as a made up creature.

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Paganism is also an idea within God, like Christianity, Buddhism, Islam…

It isn't that if you don't believe in him, he has no power as much as it is you just don't it attribute anything that is, to him. (Again, I want to stress that God is formless so these pronouns that I'm using are just placeholders).

But in a way, you are correct. The law is (for the sake of this analogy) you get presents on Christmas day. It is your choice whether to believe Santa brought them or your parents did. Either doesn't actually change the law.

Whether you believe God exists or not doesn't change the fact that you exist (the law). So either way, you are still affected by his power. I think an important point to take into consideration is God is his creation, not a man that created something and went somewhere else, but rather God is everything there is.

HailCzr85 said:

You do when you secretly know there aren't any indisputable facts but your audience isn't smart enough or too scared to know better and ask this question.

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But you have lived your whole life on suppositions that you, yourself, cannot verify or validate.
The fact that you are alive is evident, but did you look at the clock as you came out and said, It's 3:15 pm, Eastern Standard time on October 17? You rely on your mother's testimony. You rely on the doctor's testimony.
I will NOT be disrespectful so I will ASK a question and not accuse your dear mother. Has she ever told a lied? Has the doctor ever lied? In theory they could have lied IF your answer to the question was yes.

You were present at your own birth but you cannot tell me FOR SURE of what your own birthday is.
Interesting.
Your education probably taught you about Ancient Rome. Was your teacher a witness? Was the author of the history book that you read, present when Julius was stabbed?

Everyone is looking for facts in a religion but cannot see the facts that are right in front of their very own eyes.

I probably will not respond to this thread for a few days if you reply but, if you do respond, trust me that I will respond but not immediately. I'm getting by brains blown out with this new systems that I'm developing. Please be patient.