The Cookout

MR-D-ROB said:

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

Click to expand...

MR-D-ROB said:

I am able to come up with such good ideas because i used to be a police officer. The thing that changes their behavior is loss of financial resources and loss of job.
If a cop knew they were going to get suspended for 2 weeks without pay regardless of the outcome they aren't going to be so quick to be abusive.

If police chiefs and sheriffs knew their job and livelihood is tied to the behavior of those they oversee they aren't going to blindly back them up when they do wrong. They are going to hold them accountable and likely fire them if the behavior does not cease.

The easiest way to make this happen is through executive orders. The president does not need approval of Congress to pass executive orders. He can make changes to and affect federal funding without their approval through executive order. He can create a sub-agency within an already existing executive department to investigate police misconduct. This doesn't require Congress. The president is head of the executive branch and has control of executive agencies.

I as a federal employee have seen the president take action without Congress. He can give days off. He even recently raised all federal employees minimum wage. As a tenured federal employee I am pretty aware of the power he has here.

Most of the racist officers I knew whether they were white or Hispanic (believe me Hispanic cops are worse than the white ones) usually had very little or no formal education. Most college educated people grow out of their racism. Most of the racist know being a cop gets you a decent paying job and you don't need any formal education so that is what they go for. They are poorly informed and get all their information from Fox News.

Having to go to college forces you to interact with people outside your circle. It makes you see the world from other's perspective.

Click to expand...

MR-D-ROB said:

I'm of the belief that we can't just ask for things using slogans. We must be very specific in what it is we want.

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MR-D-ROB said:

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

Click to expand...

BrianCJ1123 said:

Love this template. 💡

Click to expand...

MR-D-ROB said:

I think whites and racist are going to go against anything that's against the police. If you say #punishthepolice, They are going to say we can't just punish all police. We can't just have a hashtag. We have to be specific in what we want and be able to explain it.

Once we have a specific agenda like what I outlined they can't be against it. Only the bad cops are being punished. If they say a few bad apples and the bad apples are the ones being punished then they can't really wriggle out of that argument. They only way to go against that is to say you are okay with police abusing black people and don't want them punished.

You can always argue against a slogan. Most white supremacist don't have the knowledge to argue against an agenda.

Click to expand...

MR-D-ROB said:

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

Click to expand...

MR-D-ROB said:

No. That's why I left the profession.
I first decided that wasn't for me when a co-worker said that if he saw a car full of black guys driving around he'd think that was suspicious. I explained to him he was describing my evening las night. He kind of gave me a blank stare but didn't back of his stance about it.
Nothing but racist in that profession. And the black ones that don't buy into the rhetoric are ostracized.

The job isn't difficult. Dealing with the racism is!

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B1 rebel 365 said:

OFFS!

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MR-D-ROB said:

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

Click to expand...

B1 rebel 365 said:

MR-D-ROB said:

One of the things we generally ask for is Police Reform.
The white supremacists are constantly trying to frame the narrative of what that means. Most of their suggestions are trash.

Some people both black and white don't even understand what qualified immunity truly is. I especially don't think white people understand because if they did they would be for removing it.
First let's define and discuss what qualified immunity is.

"Qualified immunity grants all government workers immunity for violating constitutional and civil rights unless the victims of those violations can show that their rights were “clearly established.” Although innocuous sounding, the clearly-established test is a legal obstacle nearly impossible to overcome. It requires a victim of government abuse to identify an earlier decision by the Supreme Court or a federal appeals court in the same jurisdiction, holding that precisely the same conduct under the same circumstances is illegal or unconstitutional. If none exists, the government worker is immune. It doesn’t matter whether the worker’s actions are unconstitutional, unreasonable, intentional, or malicious."

Thus is virtually impossible to overcome. It's like when you try to get the first job but they all require a year of experience. But how do you get the year when no one hires with less than a year.

This is the same because you can't sue a police officer directly unless he violates a right that some one else successfully sued for. But how can that be when no one else is allowed to sue because of this doctrine?

Hopefully this gave a clearer understanding.

What is our overall goal? To stop the violence and mistreatment.

Punishment and consequences is the thing that most likely curbs the bad behavior of police.

Here are some of my suggestions.

1. Remove qualified
2. Require all police to have at least an associates degree. No exceptions.
3. Require a national test with state licensure (like nurses and doctors are required to have)
4. Require police officers to carry liability insurance paid for our of their pocket
5. Create a national agency to investigate law enforcement misconduct
6. Tie federal funding to police misconduct. If any department gets more than 10 founded allegations of misconduct or unlawful use of force their federal funding is cut. Departments would be responsible to investigate. They would then be audited by the national agency I mentioned earlier. If the department says unfounded and the national agency determines it was founded their funding is cut.
* This would force departments to investigate honestly and hold officers accountable.
7. If an officer is accused of unlawful use of force he is suspended without pay pending investigation. Investigation would be required to be at least 2 weeks minimum. Any department that refuses to do so has federal funding cut.
8. Any officer with more than 2 founded use of force allegations is placed into a national database. They are fired and unable to be hired as law enforcement. If the department refuses federal funding is cut until the officer is fired. Any department that hired them has federal funding cut.
9. Criminal investigation into police misconduct and charges are done by federal prosecutors instead of local ones.
10. Any police chief or sheriff that oversees more than 20 founded use of force allegations within a year is mandated to resign immediately.

This creates consequences for their actions. It ties financial consequences for police departments that refuses to hold police accountable.
Requiring college education weeds out some the racist white supremacists who just want to be a coo to abuse black people.
Requiring liability insurance will make them think before acting in an abusive manner because then you could go after their insurance.
Like any insurance if too many claims at filed the premiums would go up causing financial consequences to the officer directly.

Requiring a state license means that the state could punish them and even revoke the license.

The crazy thing is 5,6,7,8 could be done via executive order without any need for Congress to approve. Biden just won't do it!

Click to expand...

Just one amendment at clause 9- remove that responsibility from federal persecutors because they are notoriously corrupt white supremacists. How about an new independent body specifically for that remit?

Click to expand...

MR-D-ROB said:

I am able to come up with such good ideas because i used to be a police officer. The thing that changes their behavior is loss of financial resources and loss of job.
If a cop knew they were going to get suspended for 2 weeks without pay regardless of the outcome they aren't going to be so quick to be abusive.

If police chiefs and sheriffs knew their job and livelihood is tied to the behavior of those they oversee they aren't going to blindly back them up when they do wrong. They are going to hold them accountable and likely fire them if the behavior does not cease.

The easiest way to make this happen is through executive orders. The president does not need approval of Congress to pass executive orders. He can make changes to and affect federal funding without their approval through executive order. He can create a sub-agency within an already existing executive department to investigate police misconduct. This doesn't require Congress. The president is head of the executive branch and has control of executive agencies.

I as a federal employee have seen the president take action without Congress. He can give days off. He even recently raised all federal employees minimum wage. As a tenured federal employee I am pretty aware of the power he has here.

Most of the racist officers I knew whether they were white or Hispanic (believe me Hispanic cops are worse than the white ones) usually had very little or no formal education. Most college educated people grow out of their racism. Most of the racist know being a cop gets you a decent paying job and you don't need any formal education so that is what they go for. They are poorly informed and get all their information from Fox News.

Having to go to college forces you to interact with people outside your circle. It makes you see the world from other's perspective.

Click to expand...