The Cookout

[Mud City Savage]

I want to appreciate Apple and use their products, but I can't come to terms with the fact that their products are just too expensive. I get that their products are priced that way because it's Apple. So for some reason, they feel like they can overprice their products. I feel like a lot of Apple Macbooks or Macs in general are overpriced for the specs they have. I mean, couldn't you buy a Windows PC with the same specs for much cheaper?

I wouldn't know, because I never purchased a Mac, but I assume that they are priced the way they are because of their name alone. I could probably custom build a PC with better specs for cheaper.

iPhones are another story. Because you can always get a contract plan and get the phone for cheaper or even free depending on how long you are on a plan. But not with the Mac or their other devices.

I just never agreed with the pricing they go with. If they priced a bit more fairly, I would maybe get Apple products more.

 

[Jay]

I get that their products are priced that way because it's Apple.

This is false. Apple products have a better design and build than most competition which is why there is a premium price. If you look at the price of premium Windows-Based computers you will see that they are just as expensive as Apple. You comparing the base level Dell with the base level Apple and looking at the delta in price as an Apple tax when in fact Apple simply does not play in the low end market like Dell does.

I feel like a lot of Apple Macbooks or Macs in general are overpriced for the specs they have. I mean, couldn't you buy a Windows PC with the same specs for much cheaper?

I used to always say this but what you have to remember is that Apple the system builder, chip manufacturer and the OS maker so they can get better performance out of every SKU. Windows is one size fits all so there’s some inefficiencies there that call for more resources to deliver similar performance.

On top of that, if you buy a windows computer you have to use windows and that’s a non-starter many. Windows 11 still has inconsistencies that have been present since windows 8.

I could probably custom build a PC with better specs for cheaper.

You absolutely could but it wouldn’t be a Mac so it’s a moot point. If you want a computer with some of the best build quality in the industry, a great design, and runs MacOS you have to go with Apple.

I could probably custom build a PC with better specs for cheaper.

Pricing is based on the market and not fairness. If Louis Vuitton unfair for making a $1500 wallet? No. The value either is there for you to make the purchase or it’s not. If you don’t see the values in Macs as premium PCs that’s fine but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad PC.

The area were Apple is truly expensive is the accessories…the computers are right in line with the market, their leather sleeves and stuff like that is ridiculously expensive.

 

[Blackgravity]

I've never liked Apple, your restricted with everything they make. I've been building my own PCs for over 20 years and I've yet to come across an apple That runs faster or cleaner than any one I've built.
And depending on what I'm building for, it's cheaper to build, I have built some spendy rigs over the years, but they still out preform, and out last apple computers.
The phones in my opinion, are garbage. Over priced, design doesn't change much and your restricted from customized features..
People pay for the name more than anything else.

 

[Jay]

I've never liked Apple, your restricted with everything they make. I've been building my own PCs for over 20 years and I've yet to come across an apple That runs faster or cleaner than any one I've built.
And depending on what I'm building for, it's cheaper to build, I have built some spendy rigs over the years, but they still out preform, and out last apple computers.
The phones in my opinion, are garbage. Over priced, design doesn't change much and your restricted from customized features..
People pay for the name more than anything else.

This is anecdotal though have you done any geek benches and compared a comparably priced Apple to your rig?

In addition, it’s more than just a name, the seamless integration with everything, thoughtful design is awesome.

 

[Jay]

Y’all talking all that hot ish but this what y’all using? They can’t even be bother to skin the interface consistently.

 

[Blackgravity]

Y’all talking all that hot ish but this what y’all using? They can’t even be bother to skin the interface consistently.

View attachment 416

there's an app for that ...lol

This is anecdotal though have you done any geek benches and compared a comparably priced Apple to your rig?

In addition, it’s more than just a name, the seamless integration with everything, thoughtful design is awesome.

you sound a little heated...lol

I'm not going to get into it with the HNIC ,ill find my account locked if I keep trashing apple (lmao)
I used to go back and forth with my brother over AMD vs Intel all the time! it comes down to your own personal preference. I respect the choice, 🤪even if i think it's trash.🤪

 

[Jay]

there's an app for that ...lol

you sound a little heated...lol

I'm not going to get into it with the HNIC ,ill find my account locked if I keep trashing apple (lmao)
I used to go back and forth with my brother over AMD vs Intel all the time! it comes down to your own personal preference. I respect the choice, 🤪even if i think it's trash.🤪

Enjoy your ugly plastic computers that burn your corneas with bright white windows in dark mode. #unexpectedlasik #swirlgang

 

[sourgrapes]

Apple makes decent products but they are definitely overpriced. They don't think their prices are fair or unfair, they just know what people are willing to pay for them. If they started losing money, the costs would go down.

 

[lexodyssey]

As soon as I saw this thread, I knew @Jay was gonna throw hands

 

[Jay]

As soon as I saw this thread, I knew @Jay was gonna throw hands

Apple gang or don’t bang.

 

[Jay]

 

[sourgrapes]

We really need a funny reaction or something. This has got me rolling! I have never known someone that was this mad in love with apple. lol

 

[Troy]

Apple gangi or don’t bang.

I'm glad I don't bang.

 

[Mud City Savage]

This is false. Apple products have a better design and build than most competition which is why there is a premium price. If you look at the price of premium Windows-Based computers you will see that they are just as expensive as Apple. You comparing the base level Dell with the base level Apple and looking at the delta in price as an Apple tax when in fact Apple simply does not play in the low end market like Dell does.

Well I stand corrected. I can see the better design and build quality. I didn't consider premium Windows machines. They can get pretty pricey.

You absolutely could but it wouldn’t be a Mac so it’s a moot point. If you want a computer with some of the best build quality in the industry, a great design, and runs MacOS you have to go with Apple.

Well I'd just be trying to match the specs. If anything I may even use a linux distro instead of windows. Maybe even dual boot it with something else. I just like the freedom you get with PCs. Macs may have the design and build quality, but I feel like they are more limited with what you can do.

The area were Apple is truly expensive is the accessories…the computers are right in line with the market, their leather sleeves and stuff like that is ridiculously expensive.

That we can certainly agree on. I got a good laugh out of the fact that they were selling monitor stands for like $999 or some crazy number.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Because you continue to buy it..

A business will never change a business model that is working.

 

[Jay]

Because you continue to buy it..

A business will never change a business model that is working.

Which is why we continue to see busted and dusty windows computers flood the market

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Which is why we continue to see busted and dusty windows computers flood the market

My windows machine has worked great for the 10 years i've had it. being that there are a variety of segments in the PC world you gotta get the machine that will do the job you're looking to do. I have had a couple busted PCs mainly because I used them beyond what they were designed for and burned them out. I finally bought a more powerful rig that would handle my workload and haven't had any issues.

 

[Jay]

My windows machine has worked great for the 10 years i've had it. being that there are a variety of segments in the PC world you gotta get the machine that will do the job you're looking to do. I have had a couple busted PCs mainly because I used them beyond what they were designed for and burned them out. I finally bought a more powerful rig that would handle my workload and haven't had any issues.

100. You gotta get what works for you.

 

[Maximum]

None of these phone prices are fair.
Folks walking around with $1000 phones with cracked screens

 

[The Honorable]

None of these phone prices are fair.
Folks walking around with $1000 phones with cracked screens

...and the winner is!

 

[TheHarmattan]

I've never liked Apple, your restricted with everything they make. I've been building my own PCs for over 20 years and I've yet to come across an apple That runs faster or cleaner than any one I've built.
And depending on what I'm building for, it's cheaper to build, I have built some spendy rigs over the years, but they still out preform, and out last apple computers.
The phones in my opinion, are garbage. Over priced, design doesn't change much and your restricted from customized features..
People pay for the name more than anything else.

This is huge! The subject matter is taught in whole college courses.
PCs?
My machine is faster?
Out performing?

The marketers have done a great job at packaging complex subjects behind slogans.

No disrespect to you, Mr. Blackgravity, but this is so painful for me.

Faster doesn't depend on clock speed. Latency is real. Kernel design is a premium.

AppleOS, being a child of FreeBSD, right @Jay , the kernel is monolithic. By default a monolithic kernel is faster due to protected kernel interprocess communication. There is no question about that. Most super computers are running a *nix kernel. I don't know of ANY supercomputers running Windows' hybrid kernel.

Sorry but this subject is too big to hash out like this

Supercomputer operating system - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Blackgravity]

This is huge! The subject matter is taught in whole college courses.
PCs?
My machine is faster?
Out performing?

The marketers have done a great job at packaging complex subjects behind slogans.

No disrespect to you, Mr. Blackgravity, but this is so painful for me.

Faster doesn't depend on clock speed. Latency is real. Kernel design is a premium.

AppleOS, being a child of FreeBSD, right @Jay , the kernel is monolithic. By default a monolithic kernel is faster due to protected kernel interprocess communication. There is no question about that. Most super computers are running a *nix kernel. I don't know of ANY supercomputers running Windows' hybrid kernel.

Sorry but this subject is too big to hash out like this

Supercomputer operating system - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

..... i'm still not messing with Apple... ()

 

[TheHarmattan]

..... i'm still not messing with Apple... ()

I totally understand your freedom to choose but your freedom to choose was never in question.

The reasons you gave is what I addressed.

FreeBSD is a better choice, in my opinion, but my opinion is irrelevant in this thread.

 

[TheHarmattan]

I made a mistake. Windows NT is a monolithic kernel

 

[Maximum]

...and the winner is!

I will say this, the difference between a low end and mid range phone is a huge gap. But when you getting into higher end the main difference is the quality of the camera.
Got myself a nice midrange and man this thing built like a damn tank!

 

[Jay]

I will say this, the difference between a low end and mid range phone is a huge gap. But when you getting into higher end the main difference is the quality of the camera.
Got myself a nice midrange and man this thing built like a damn tank!

Which device did you get?

 

[Jay]

Faster doesn't depend on clock speed. Latency is real. Kernel design is a premium.

That’s interesting and is a similar concept I had to explain when I was an Engineer in Telecom. It’s not apples to apples but I would have to constantly explain to people that bandwidth is not the speed of your connection. There’s a reason why a 100Mbps connection with low latency and high class of service was much more expensive than a 1000M connection with high latency and low Class of Service. Because the latency actually determined the speed of your service. I can get 1000M from Point A to Point B in 10ms or 100M between the same points in 1ms…it’s clear which is faster.

 

[Mastamind]

*laughs in Android*

 

[TheHarmattan]

That’s interesting and is a similar concept I had to explain when I was an Engineer in Telecom. It’s not apples to apples but I would have to constantly explain to people that bandwidth is not the speed of your connection. There’s a reason why a 100Mbps connection with low latency and high class of service was much more expensive than a 1000M connection with high latency and low Class of Service. Because the latency actually determined the speed of your service. I can get 1000M from Point A to Point B in 10ms or 100M between the same points in 1ms…it’s clear which is faster.

The marketers are to blame. Those folks will take the complexity of the whole universe and put it behind a slogan small enough to fit on a business card.

 

[Jay]

The marketers are to blame. Those folks will take the complexity of the whole universe and put it behind a slogan small enough to fit on a business card.

Well if Engineers were in charge no one would sell shit cuz every sales slick would look like a EULA. So you need a dude to make the car but you also need the guy to come in and put leather on the seats and put in a good sound system. You need both. Working as an Engineer and as a Product Manager I've seen first hand how freaking small minded a lot of Engineering personnel can be. I can only be around them for small periods of time...everything ain't 2 + 2 = 4 muhfucka the shareholders need to see a 10% increase or heads gon' roll so today 2 + 2 = 5 muhfucka I'ma slap BEST IN CLASS on the slowest product we got nigga so what...it's better than all the competitors.

 

[TheHarmattan]

Well if Engineers were in charge no one would sell ish cuz every sales slick would look like a EULA. So you need a dude to make the car but you also need the guy to come in and put leather on the seats and put in a good sound system. You need both. Working as an Engineer and as a Product Manager I've seen first hand how freaking small minded a lot of Engineering personnel can be. I can only be around them for small periods of time...everything ain't 2 + 2 = 4 muhfucka the shareholders need to see a 10% increase or heads gon' roll so today 2 + 2 = 5 muhfucka I'ma slap BEST IN CLASS on the slowest product we got negro so what...it's better than all the competitors.

But 2 + 2 doesn't always equal 4. Any engineer worth their salt knows that.
0 + 0 can equal 4 depending on your loop logic. 1 + 1 can equal 4 too, depending on your loop logic.

We don't stand on solid ground. Math is a descriptor and nothing else. A day is NOT 24 hours but our math description is pretty close.

The marketers will twist the math to be appealing just enough to get your money.

I love math, BTW

 

[Jay]

But 2 + 2 doesn't always equal 4. Any engineer worth their salt knows that.
0 + 0 can equal 4 depending on your loop logic. 1 + 1 can equal 4 too, depending on your loop logic.

We don't stand on solid ground. Math is a descriptor and nothing else. A day is NOT 24 hours but our math description is pretty close.

The marketers will twist the math to be appealing just enough to get your money.

I love math, BTW

Well those of you I like think like that...not all Engineers think like that though.

 

[TheHarmattan]

Well those of you I like think like that...not all Engineers think like that though.

True. Some are just nerds like me😅

 

[Maximum]

Which device did you get?

Moto Gfast

 

[Jay]

Moto Gfast

Oh thats nice looking joint there!

 

[The Honorable]

I will say this, the difference between a low end and mid range phone is a huge gap. But when you getting into higher end the main difference is the quality of the camera.
Got myself a nice midrange and man this thing built like a damn tank!

I agree with this and then OS in the case of Apple vs. Android.