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[S.O.J.I.A.]

Jason Black has pointed out on numerous broadcasts how you're not gonna get everything from your parents. I heard him on a few occasions discuss the role of his own parents in his life and even heard him refer to his own father with a tone of great reverence and even fear.

I agree that while you certainly cannot get everything from your parents, They can, should, and must, give you the foundational things you need so you can go out into the world and function. I believe Jason Black got these things from his parents which is why he is where he is today. Without them, he would have been like the majority of us in the so-called "black" community who are lost out here. If your parents don't do it, someone has to(and ultimately, someone, or something, will).

The devil race has put no small investment into dismantling the "black" household and making it dysfunctional and broken because they understand this fact. It's extremely hard to outright impossible to change poor life habits you have had for 30 or 40 years. You carry these bad habits into your 30s and it's essentially over. Live and let die.

Proper upbringing can't be understated on the subject of our people not being the builders, producers, and leaders we need.

 

[Jay]

Jason Black has pointed out on numerous broadcasts how you're not gonna get everything from your parents. I heard him on a few occasions discuss the role of his own parents in his life and even heard him refer to his own father with a tone of great reverence and even fear.

I agree that while you certainly cannot get everything from your parents, They can, should, and must, give you the foundational things you need so you can go out into the world and function. I believe Jason Black got these things from his parents which is why he is where he is today. Without them, he would have been like the majority of us in the so-called "black" community who are lost out here. If your parents don't do it, someone has to(and ultimately, someone, or something, will).

The devil race has put no small investment into dismantling the "black" household and making it dysfunctional and broken because they understand this fact. It's extremely hard to outright impossible to change poor life habits you have had for 30 or 40 years. You carry these bad habits into your 30s and it's essentially over. Live and let die.

Proper upbringing can't be understated on the subject of our people not being the builders, producers, and leaders we need.

Proper upbringing is important but once you become an adult you’re on your own and you can’t keep blaming your parents.

You are responsible for identifying and closing those gaps on your own. If you need to go to therapy to do so, then do it.

I grew up in a single parent household without a father figure so I had to close the manhood gap on my own.

So I think that’s the point. Everyone is going to have a gap when they exit the nest and some are going to be wider than others.

Is it fair? No. Does it matter if it’s fair? No. It’s just life and you have to play the cards you are dealt.


Great topic.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Proper upbringing is important but once you become an adult you’re on your own and you can’t keep blaming your parents.

You are responsible for identifying and closing those gaps on your own. If you need to go to therapy to do so, then do it.

I grew up in a single parent household without a father figure so I had to close the manhood gap on my own.

So I think that’s the point. Everyone is going to have a gap when they exit the nest and some are going to be wider than others.

Is it fair? No. Does it matter if it’s fair? No. It’s just life and you have to play the cards you are dealt.


Great topic.

I don't deny personal responsibility. Life does not care about your upbringing. Either you get it done or you get done. Kill or be killed. If you don't have what it takes life does not sympathize. It only punishes and perges.

My point is, you will not make it without these foundations. Period. As I said, if it's not your parents, then someone else has to do it. A teacher, a relative, a neighbor, a book, a documentary. It has to come from someone or something. The dude who goes through life playing video games and getting high with bastard kids didn't get there on his own. He had influences in his life that lead him there. Same for the successful 7 figure business owner Married with children. Both applied what they were given to their own lives and got the results they did. Ask any successful person who their influences are and they're not gonna say nobody or nothing.

Jason Black got what he needed from where it's supposed to come from. His parents. I'd say Jason never had a gap. All he needed to do was apply what had been given to him. I haven't heard Tariq Nasheed talk about his parents in depth but he does make it clear he respects them(his mother anyway. haven't heard him talk about his father). He has talked about the men who gave him the game who were in the hustle game in the street. That's where he got his foundation from. In either case, it didn't come through osmosis. Something or someone outside of these two individuals had a positive effect on their lives.

The devil race has spent trillions on advertisements, programming, school curriculums, and other forms of social engineering to create these destructive influences on our youth because they know the effect it has. If there is no counter to this than there's no other outcome but failure. Garbage in, garbage out.

This is why programs like the business are desperately needed. Much of what is discussed on that broadcast the vast majority of our people have never heard before in their lives! That right there is a state of emergency situation and if not remedied we should not expect the community to get better. No one ever did it on their own. Everyone needed someone to step in.

 

[ProMoatBlack]

Jason Black has pointed out on numerous broadcasts how you're not gonna get everything from your parents. I heard him on a few occasions discuss the role of his own parents in his life and even heard him refer to his own father with a tone of great reverence and even fear.

I agree that while you certainly cannot get everything from your parents, They can, should, and must, give you the foundational things you need so you can go out into the world and function. I believe Jason Black got these things from his parents which is why he is where he is today. Without them, he would have been like the majority of us in the so-called "black" community who are lost out here. If your parents don't do it, someone has to(and ultimately, someone, or something, will).

The devil race has put no small investment into dismantling the "black" household and making it dysfunctional and broken because they understand this fact. It's extremely hard to outright impossible to change poor life habits you have had for 30 or 40 years. You carry these bad habits into your 30s and it's essentially over. Live and let die.

Proper upbringing can't be understated on the subject of our people not being the builders, producers, and leaders we need.

My wife and I are making a point to provide a stable well educated and loving household to our children. We understand that our children need to understand everything that came before them especially from the perspective of their parents.


You fellas are preaching when it comes to playing the cards you are dealt. As a kid my mother nor father was around so I was shifted every couple years or so amongst my Aunts.

After college I admit I had issues with what they didnt tell me about as far as financial literacy but as brother Jay said we have to close the gaps on our own. I found that the more I gained my own financial freedom the less of an internal issue it became. You have to achieve all you can om your own. Only then will you be able to find the support to expand because your works will show your worth.

 

[ProMoatBlack]

I don't deny personal responsibility. Life does not care about your upbringing. Either you get it done or you get done. Kill or be killed. If you don't have what it takes life does not sympathize. It only punishes and perges.

My point is, you will not make it without these foundations. Period. As I said, if it's not your parents, then someone else has to do it. A teacher, a relative, a neighbor, a book, a documentary. It has to come from someone or something. The dude who goes through life playing video games and getting high with bastard kids didn't get there on his own. He had influences in his life that lead him there. Same for the successful 7 figure business owner Married with children. Both applied what they were given to their own lives and got the results they did. Ask any successful person who their influences are and they're not gonna say nobody or nothing.

Jason Black got what he needed from where it's supposed to come from. His parents. I'd say Jason never had a gap. All he needed to do was apply what had been given to him. I haven't heard Tariq Nasheed talk about his parents in depth but he does make it clear he respects them(his mother anyway. haven't heard him talk about his father). He has talked about the men who gave him the game who were in the hustle game in the street. That's where he got his foundation from. In either case, it didn't come through osmosis. Something or someone outside of these two individuals had a positive effect on their lives.

The devil race has spent trillions on advertisements, programming, school curriculums, and other forms of social engineering to create these destructive influences on our youth because they know the effect it has. If there is no counter to this than there's no other outcome but failure. Garbage in, garbage out.

This is why programs like the business are desperately needed. Much of what is discussed on that broadcast the vast majority of our people have never heard before in their lives! That right there is a state of emergency situation and if not remedied we should not expect the community to get better. No one ever did it on their own. Everyone needed someone to step in.

You preaching this morning I whole heartedly agree. My Aunts made sure I had a male influence from church elders.

I will also add that reading books from the elders of your people can also catch you up to speed when it comes to learning the game of life or understanding how to withstand and fight off the enemy. I know in addition to Powernomics, all three mack books from Tariq , 48 laws of power, the prince' the art of war among others definitely had a positive influence that contributed to a healthy foundation. Reading is Fundamental to building a solid foundation.

 

[Jay]

My point is, you will not make it without these foundations. Period. As I said, if it's not your parents, then someone else has to do it. A teacher, a relative, a neighbor, a book, a documentary. It has to come from someone or something.

I’m not trying to be pedantic but everything comes from someone or something. The book and the documentary example you gave are my whole point. It is our job to close in the gaps from childhood. We have to grab life by the horns and make it what we want with the tools we have at their avail.

I don’t see how you can assume others had everything they needed which is why they are successful. You’re assuming it’s that way to justify your viewpoint rather than learning their life stories and then basing your viewpoint off the facts.

I’m of the mind state that you can pull yourself out of any rut. There are so many resources available to us now that if you are determined to get out of your rut, you can. The bum ass dude sitting up playing video games may have been spoiled as a youth but at what point does it become a conscience decision he or she is making?

I have a cousin who was spoiled rotten and now he’s lazy and unproductive and lives with his mom. He’s in his 30’s with seemingly no goals to elevate his situation. At this point, it’s his fault. He’s seen all of us grow and get careers and skills and he didn’t. I’m not going to blame hus mom for how he is today. It’s a conscious choice to NOT close the gaps your parents left.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I’m not trying to be pedantic but everything comes from someone or something. The book and the documentary example you gave are my whole point. It is our job to close in the gaps from childhood. We have to grab life by the horns and make it what we want with the tools we have at their avail.

So you're saying you have no influences? You can't read a book or watch a documentary you don't know exists and if you were brought up hating to read and your mom let you watch nothing but cartoons than a book or a doc isn't gonna help you.

I have a cousin who was spoiled rotten and now he’s lazy and unproductive and lives with his mom. He’s in his 30’s with seemingly no goals to elevate his situation. At this point, it’s his fault. He’s seen all of us grow and get careers and skills and he didn’t. I’m not going to blame hus mom for how he is today. It’s a conscious choice to NOT close the gaps your parents left

It actually is his parents fault in this case because those are the influences he was given. We're all the product of our environment and experience. The "life ain't fair" part is the fact he will be held responsible for his life and not his mother. Again, life doesn't care about your upbringing.

If someone runs a red light and T-bones my car, it's their fault my car is totalled. This doesn't fix the fact that My car is totalled and I can't drive it anymore. If the parents screw up the kid it's absolutely their fault but an acknowledgement of blame doesn't fix the kid who's screwed up. A person doesn't fix themself just like a car doesn't fix itself. If you can't get the car fixed, you take it to the junkyard and salvage it. It's not the cars fault it got totalled but it doesn't matter. It's junk.

 

[ProMoatBlack]

I’m not trying to be pedantic but everything comes from someone or something. The book and the documentary example you gave are my whole point. It is our job to close in the gaps from childhood. We have to grab life by the horns and make it what we want with the tools we have at their avail.

I don’t see how you can assume others had everything they needed which is why they are successful. You’re assuming it’s that way to justify your viewpoint rather than learning their life stories and then basing your viewpoint off the facts.

I’m of the mind state that you can pull yourself out of any rut. There are so many resources available to us now that if you are determined to get out of your rut, you can. The bum ass dude sitting up playing video games may have been spoiled as a youth but at what point does it become a conscience decision he or she is making?

I have a cousin who was spoiled rotten and now he’s lazy and unproductive and lives with his mom. He’s in his 30’s with seemingly no goals to elevate his situation. At this point, it’s his fault. He’s seen all of us grow and get careers and skills and he didn’t. I’m not going to blame hus mom for how he is today. It’s a conscious choice to NOT close the gaps your parents left.

I agree that you can pull yourself out of any rut. However I feel like our parents did us a disservice if they didn't teach you or treat you like their clone or an employee. Meaning teach us everything we could possibly know about how the world works especially when it comes to finances.


If your cousin was like 20 or just graduated from college I could understand why she is allowing him to stay with her. At 30 she needs to kick him out to force him into picking himself up by his bootstraps. If he really doesnt have a plan she should hit him with some powernomics and tell him what skill he needs to learn and utilize to help benefit the family. He could even be an employee in her company. At 30 he needs to either be forced into being productive or he needs to be on these cold winter streets.

Life hitting you hard will make you grow up real fast.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

If your cousin was like 20 or just graduated from college I could understand why she is allowing him to stay with her. At 30 she needs to kick him out to force him into picking himself up by his bootstraps. If he really doesnt have a plan she should hit him with some powernomics and tell him what skill he needs to learn and utilize to help benefit the family. He could even be an employee in her company. At 30 he needs to either be forced into being productive or he needs to be on these cold winter streets.

Life hitting you hard will make you grow up real fast.

If he's been allowed to be like that up until age 30 he's essentially done. The poor life habits have set in too deep and I agree with you that he may need a catastrophic life event to happen to him such as homelessness. Sometimes drastic measures may be necessary.

 

[Jay]

So you're saying you have no influences? You can't read a book or watch a documentary you don't know exists and if you were brought up hating to read and your mom let you watch nothing but cartoons than a book or a doc isn't gonna help you.


It actually is his parents fault in this case because those are the influences he was given. We're all the product of our environment and experience. The "life ain't fair" part is the fact he will be held responsible for his life and not his mother. Again, life doesn't care about your upbringing.

If someone runs a red light and T-bones my car, it's their fault my car is totalled. This doesn't fix the fact that My car is totalled and I can't drive it anymore. If the parents screw up the kid it's absolutely their fault but an acknowledgement of blame doesn't fix the kid who's screwed up. A person doesn't fix themself just like a car doesn't fix itself. If you can't get the car fixed, you take it to the junkyard and salvage it. It's not the cars fault it got totalled but it doesn't matter. It's junk.

No, I’m not saying that I have no influences. I’m saying that after turning 18 I was able to become who I wanted to be so I surrounded myself with the influences that would get me there. If we didn’t have free will to be who we wanted to be I’d be a crip right now. I’m the product of a single mother growing up in the hood. I became who I am partly because of my mom but also because of conscious decisions I’ve made over the years.

If your parents didn’t teach you about credit does that justify you not paying your bills? If your parents didn’t explicitly tell you not to use drugs does that excuse you becoming a junkie? No. To think in 18 years our parents can prep us for everything that’s going to happen in the next 72 years of our lives is absurd to me.

My mom grew up in a house with domestic violence did she repeat that? No. Because as an adult she vowed to never let her kids see what she saw growing up. I don’t believe removing personal agency helps anyone.

I agree that you can pull yourself out of any rut. However I feel like our parents did us a disservice if they didn't teach you or treat you like their clone or an employee. Meaning teach us everything we could possibly know about how the world works especially when it comes to finances.


If your cousin was like 20 or just graduated from college I could understand why she is allowing him to stay with her. At 30 she needs to kick him out to force him into picking himself up by his bootstraps. If he really doesnt have a plan she should hit him with some powernomics and tell him what skill he needs to learn and utilize to help benefit the family. He could even be an employee in her company. At 30 he needs to either be forced into being productive or he needs to be on these cold winter streets.

Life hitting you hard will make you grow up real fast.

Yes but that’s his choice to live like that. Is she enabling him, yes? But it’s his choice. Blaming his mom only enables him more because he can use it as an excuse for his lack of productivity.

 

[ProMoatBlack]

No, I’m not saying that I have no influences. I’m saying that after turning 18 I was able to become who I wanted to be so I surrounded myself with the influences that would get me there. If we didn’t have free will to be who we wanted to be I’d be a crip right now. I’m the product of a single mother growing up in the hood. I became who I am partly because of my mom but also because of conscious decisions I’ve made over the years.

If your parents didn’t teach you about credit does that justify you not paying your bills? If your parents didn’t explicitly tell you not to use drugs does that excuse you becoming a junkie? No. To think in 18 years our parents can prep us for everything that’s going to happen in the next 72 years of our lives is absurd to me.

My mom grew up in a house with domestic violence did she repeat that? No. Because as an adult she vowed to never let her kids see what she saw growing up. I don’t believe removing personal agency helps anyone.



Yes but that’s his choice to live like that. Is she enabling him, yes? But it’s his choice. Blaming his mom only enables him more because he can use it as an excuse for his lack of productivity.

I wouldn't blame her per se he is his own man. I'm just saying enabling him will give him the cushion or room to stay complacent. Sounds like homeboy has to be kicked out of nest.

Everything you mention about self responsibility outside of your parents and guardians comes when you fully leave the home. In my opinion. When I got to college I was able to explore who I wanted to be and had the freedom to do so. Pressure to succeed helped a lot too. He doesnt have that when he can say to himself eh my mom will let me stay here forever.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

No, I’m not saying that I have no influences. I’m saying that after turning 18 I was able to become who I wanted to be so I surrounded myself with the influences that would get me there. If we didn’t have free will to be who we wanted to be I’d be a crip right now. I’m the product of a single mother growing up in the hood. I became who I am partly because of my mom but also because of conscious decisions I’ve made over the years.

And you became who you wanted to be due to the influences you had prior to becoming 18 ie...You mom(I'm sure there were others as well, both positive and negative). Would you argue if we took away the influence of you mom you would still make the same decisions? Was your mom the only positive influence you had in your life prior to 18?

If your parents didn’t teach you about credit does that justify you not paying your bills? If your parents didn’t explicitly tell you not to use drugs does that excuse you becoming a junkie? No. To think in 18 years our parents can prep us for everything that’s going to happen in the next 72 years of our lives is absurd to me.

Rather, it would be the reason for why you don't pay your bills and the reason you are on drugs. pretty much every professional psychiatrists would think saying otherwise would be absurd. People can, indeed, change trajectories but this requires different influences.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I wouldn't blame her per se he is his own man. I'm just saying enabling him will give him the cushion or room to stay complacent. Sounds like homeboy has to be kicked out of nest.

Everything you mention about self responsibility outside of your parents and guardians comes when you fully leave the home. In my opinion. When I got to college I was able to explore who I wanted to be and had the freedom to do so. Pressure to succeed helped a lot too. He doesnt have that when he can say to himself eh my mom will let me stay here forever.

being kicked out of the house is an experience. A negative experience, but one nonetheless. Those experiences can influence you in one way or the other.

He never got a chance to be man as he was infantilized by his mother. You can't be something you were never taught to be. Something drastic would have to take place in his life to jolt him out of his life habits. Miss meal cramps can do that.

 

[Jay]

I wouldn't blame her per se he is his own man. I'm just saying enabling him will give him the cushion or room to stay complacent. Sounds like homeboy has to be kicked out of nest.

Everything you mention about self responsibility outside of your parents and guardians comes when you fully leave the home. In my opinion. When I got to college I was able to explore who I wanted to be and had the freedom to do so. Pressure to succeed helped a lot too. He doesnt have that when he can say to himself eh my mom will let me stay here forever.

And you became who you wanted to be due to the influences you had prior to becoming 18 ie...You mom(I'm sure there were others as well, both positive and negative). Would you argue if we took away the influence of you mom you would still make the same decisions? Was your mom the only positive influence you had in your life prior to 18?


Rather, it would be the reason for why you don't pay your bills and the reason you are on drugs. pretty much every professional psychiatrists would think saying otherwise would be absurd. People can, indeed, change trajectories but this requires different influences.

I have to keep it a buck and just say that I will never agree with you on this at all. Your childhood plays on a huge role on who you are but you are not limited to your childhood. You have the ability to become who you want despite what your parents did or did not teach you. I’m not for any mind state that allows men excuses for being unproductive. My thought process is that as a man I have to get the job done no matter the odds or die trying. Excuses mean nothing people want to know what you can produce. If your parents didn’t instill that in you and the world doesn’t invole the change in you then that’s your choice. I see your points but I see it as someone not rising up to the challenge. Ok, you were spoiled, now you going house to house…slumming it and bumming it…something inside of you should want the stability that everyone else has. If you don’t that’s your choice.

 

[ProMoatBlack]

I have to keep it a buck and just say that I will never agree with you on this at all. Your childhood plays on a huge role on who you are but you are not limited to your childhood. You have the ability to become who you want despite what your parents did or did not teach you. I’m not for any mind state that allows men excuses for being unproductive. My thought process is that as a man I have to get the job done no matter the odds or die trying. Excuses mean nothing people want to know what you can produce. If your parents didn’t instill that in you and the world doesn’t invole the change in you then that’s your choice. I see your points but I see it as someone not rising up to the challenge. Ok, you were spoiled, now you going house to house…slumming it and bumming it…something inside of you should want the stability that everyone else has. If you don’t that’s your choice.

I feel you. You can put the fight into a man's heart. Either he has it or he doesn't. Even Jesus said you eill know them by their works aka what you produce. No excuse to produce nothing. Even the scriptures say a man that doesnt work doesn't deserve to eat.

 

[ProMoatBlack]

I have to keep it a buck and just say that I will never agree with you on this at all. Your childhood plays on a huge role on who you are but you are not limited to your childhood. You have the ability to become who you want despite what your parents did or did not teach you. I’m not for any mind state that allows men excuses for being unproductive. My thought process is that as a man I have to get the job done no matter the odds or die trying. Excuses mean nothing people want to know what you can produce. If your parents didn’t instill that in you and the world doesn’t invole the change in you then that’s your choice. I see your points but I see it as someone not rising up to the challenge. Ok, you were spoiled, now you going house to house…slumming it and bumming it…something inside of you should want the stability that everyone else has. If you don’t that’s your choice.

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.
II Thessalonians 3:10 NKJV

II Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.

bible.com

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I have to keep it a buck and just say that I will never agree with you on this at all. Your childhood plays on a huge role on who you are but you are not limited to your childhood. You have the ability to become who you want despite what your parents did or did not teach you. I’m not for any mind state that allows men excuses for being unproductive. My thought process is that as a man I have to get the job done no matter the odds or die trying. Excuses mean nothing people want to know what you can produce. If your parents didn’t instill that in you and the world doesn’t invole the change in you then that’s your choice. I see your points but I see it as someone not rising up to the challenge. Ok, you were spoiled, now you going house to house…slumming it and bumming it…something inside of you should want the stability that everyone else has. If you don’t that’s your choice.

I don't think you're understanding my point. I never insinuated that your cousin has no responsibility. In fact, I said the opposite. What I have stated is the reason for why your cousin is in the state he is in. It will ultimately be his task to rectify his situation....But more than likely he won't.

You'll say "that's his choice". I say, it's the only choice he ever had the opportunity to make because of an upbringing and a set of values he was given that he did not choose. Slumming and bumming and going from house to house might be the only thing that can change his path in life.

Your cousin is unfortunately very typical of the males in our community. I'm looking to the root cause of it to solve the problem. Saying "you're a lazy bum" is complaining about the problem but does nothing in getting to the cause and remedying it. there's a reason why there were big brother/big sister programs in our community. There's a reason some parents don't let their kids watch commercials. because people understood why these things happen. Our youth need a different message than the one they're getting at home, from the media, and even from their school.

You seem to believe people can make life choices in isolation from environment and experience devoid of the knowledge and understanding of alternatives. There's no one in any sort of behavioral studies who would agree with this.

 

[Deleted member 191]

I think I agree with Jay mostly, once we are deep into our adulthood, it stops being our parents fault and it starts being a result of that person's unwillingness to DO better and unwillingness to WANT better. Because we talk about mental health in our community more than we ever have, therapy isn't the "taboo" it once was, so not seeking it if necessary, is simply denial at best or defiance at worst.

ProMoatBlack makes a great point too. Enablers who allow the behavior, constantly making excuses for that person and fail to set healthy boundaries that forces a person to make better and/or healthier choices, will NOT beget the desired outcome in the end.

S.O.J.I.A. I think where we disagree is you think that because our parents didn't teach a thing, we now as adults lack the personal agency to learn or research those things on our own.

My mother was an accountant, but she didn't know shit about how credit worked so she spent and maxed out credit cards left and right without my father realizing. When I got my first credit card, I DIDN'T know shit about how it work....SO I TAUGHT MYSELF because I AM now the decision maker for me and my life.

I used to be like you when I was young and in my roaring 20s, I wanted to blame the parents for the clusterfuck that is their kids because ultimately it's THE PARENTS who are sending them out into the world for the rest of us to have to deal with....but as I got older, I realized SOMETIMES, the best intentioned people just produce bad stock. And SOMETIMES the most damaged people produce the most driven, ambitious, life-changing and life-saving people the world has ever seen. Are the percentages HIGHER if you come from a 2 parent home and a solid foundation yes! But is it a guarantee that you won't become a piece of shit? No!

At the end of the day, it's going to be on you.

 

[Jay]

I don't think you're understanding my point. I never insinuated that your cousin has no responsibility. In fact, I said the opposite. What I have stated is the reason for why your cousin is in the state he is in. It will ultimately be his task to rectify his situation....But more than likely he won't.

You'll say "that's his choice". I say, it's the only choice he ever had the opportunity to make because of an upbringing and a set of values he was given that he did not choose. Slumming and bumming and going from house to house might be the only thing that can change his path in life.

Your cousin is unfortunately very typical of the males in our community. I'm looking to the root cause of it to solve the problem. Saying "you're a lazy bum" is complaining about the problem but does nothing in getting to the cause and remedying it. there's a reason why there were big brother/big sister programs in our community. There's a reason some parents don't let their kids watch commercials. because people understood why these things happen. Our youth need a different message than the one they're getting at home, from the media, and even from their school.

You seem to believe people can make life choices in isolation from environment and experience devoid of the knowledge and understanding of alternatives. There's no one in any sort of behavioral studies who would agree with this.

Well you and I don’t have to agree, challenging each other’s viewpoints is what we SHOULD be doing. I was being intellectually honest with you by telling you that I will never agree with your perspective.

You’re basically saying that what we learn up til the age of 18 is all the learning we will have and I simply disagree. It is your responsibility to take what your parents gave you and go farther.

I’ve evolved way beyond what my mom made me to be at 18. While I do personally praise her for giving me a sound mind so that I can be me unecumbered at the end of the day I’m making the decisions.

When I saw my homies smoking crystal meth at a hotel party, I left and walked 5 miles home. I personally made that decision.

When I got out the Air Force I made the decision to get a job immediately and to get an apartment.

I made the choice to bust my ass at that job and get promoted 4 times going from 12/hour to 6 figures.

You’re explaining things as if I’m some automaton that is constrained to the programming my mom instilled in me which is not the case.

I see your perspective as making excuses for the bums in our community and that’s the last thing we need. We need Black men to be leaders and have accountability and follow through be the core tenets of their ideology.

The man I am today I never saw growing up. I didn’t know any male role models like me. You know how I got the visual of the man I am today? The movie Hitch. You know how I learned how to talk and eat, etc…these books:


I made myself into the me I am today.

 

[ProMoatBlack]

Well you and I don’t have to agree, challenging each other’s viewpoints is what we SHOULD be doing. I was being intellectually honest with you by telling you that I will never agree with your perspective.

You’re basically saying that what we learn up til the age of 18 is all the learning we will have and I simply disagree. It is your responsibility to take what your parents gave you and go farther.

I’ve evolved way beyond what my mom made me to be at 18. While I do personally praise her for giving me a sound mind so that I can be me unecumbered at the end of the day I’m making the decisions.

When I saw my homies smoking crystal meth at a hotel party, I left and walked 5 miles home. I personally made that decision.

When I got out the Air Force I made the decision to get a job immediately and to get an apartment.

I made the choice to bust my ass at that job and get promoted 4 times going from 12/hour to 6 figures.

You’re explaining things as if I’m some automaton that is constrained to the programming my mom instilled in me which is not the case.

I see your perspective as making excuses for the bums in our community and that’s the last thing we need. We need Black men to be leaders and have accountability and follow through be the core tenets of their ideology.

The man I am today I never saw growing up. I didn’t know any male role models like me. You know how I got the visual of the man I am today? The movie Hitch. You know how I learned how to talk and eat, etc…these books:
View attachment 5995

I made myself into the me I am today.

Knowledge of self and purpose brings great power.
Many blessings to you brother!!!

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

You’re basically saying that what we learn up til the age of 18 is all the learning we will have and I simply disagree

Nope, never said that. Let's not attack straw-men.

A foundation is not a completed structure. It is a stable plane for the purpose of putting a structure on so it won't fall. You got that from your mother, your cousin didn't. You're both working with what you received from your environment and experiences.

You’re explaining things as if I’m some automaton that is constrained to the programming my mom instilled in me which is not the case.

Rather, I'm explaining the reason you decided to walk 5 miles home after seeing your friends smoking meth came from what your mother taught or showed you.

Proverbs 22:6
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Your cousin is following this proverb too as he was trained by his mom to be a lay-about.

We are all the product of our environment and experience. whether it's you mother, your bonehead friends, Some really good books, etc.

 

[Jay]

Nope, never said that. Let's not attack straw-men.

A foundation is not a completed structure. It is a stable plane for the purpose of putting a structure on so it won't fall. You got that from your mother, your cousin didn't. You're both working with what you received from your environment and experiences.


Rather, I'm explaining the reason you decided to walk 5 miles home after seeing your friends smoking meth came from what your mother taught or showed you.

Proverbs 22:6
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Your cousin is following this proverb too as he was trained by his mom to be a lay-about.

We are all the product of our environment and experience. whether it's you mother, your bonehead friends, Some really good books, etc.

Nope, never said that. Let's not attack straw-men.

A foundation is not a completed structure. It is a stable plane for the purpose of putting a structure on so it won't fall. You got that from your mother, your cousin didn't. You're both working with what you received from your environment and experiences.


Rather, I'm explaining the reason you decided to walk 5 miles home after seeing your friends smoking meth came from what your mother taught or showed you.

Proverbs 22:6
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Your cousin is following this proverb too as he was trained by his mom to be a lay-about.

We are all the product of our environment and experience. whether it's you mother, your bonehead friends, Some really good books, etc.

Once again, there is nothing that you can tell me that will change my mind, I just want to be honest with you.

Do parents play a pivotal role in your success? Yes! Does a bad parent or upbringing doom you to a bad fate? No.

My cousin for instance is in the position he is in because he wants to be in that position. You say it’s because of his upbringing and I say at a certain point you have to take accountability.

I never said that we weren’t the products of our environment, we are. But we also have a brain and a multitude of senses to interpret that environment as we wish.

Like I said, my mom grew up seeing domestic violence. It made her vow to never put up with that ever. Some of my aunts and uncles perpetuated the cycle but they all made a choice.

 

[Deleted member 191]

Once again, there is nothing that you can tell me that will change my mind, I just want to be honest with you.

Do parents play a pivotal role in your success? Yes! Does a bad parent or upbringing doom you to a bad fate? No.

My cousin for instance is in the position he is in because he wants to be in that position. You say it’s because of his upbringing and I say at a certain point you have to take accountability.

I never said that we weren’t the products of our environment, we are. But we also have a brain and a multitude of senses to interpret that environment as we wish.

Like I said, my mom grew up seeing domestic violence. It made her vow to never put up with that ever. Some of my aunts and uncles perpetuated the cycle but they all made a choice.

My uncle (my dad's brother) Always lived with my Grandmother. My Grandmother babied him LITERALLY his whole life. When she died in 2018, it was the first time in his life, he had to actually be responsible. I'm talking paying bills, buying groceries, paying rent, taxes, the whole adult enchilada because she literally took care of everything for him. This is a guy with 3 grown children and a football team worth of grand-children and yet, it wasn't until 2018 (just shy of 70 years old) that he had to finally become a responsible adult.

THAT was HIS choice to stay in that infantile lifestyle. Yeah my Grandmother enabled the shit out of him. But he didn't WANT to do more than what she asked of him either! So here he is now, 73 years old and almost 5 years removed from my Grandmother's passing and he STILL is calling my dad to help him do shit that the average adult male his age, should have been doing 50+ years now.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I think where we disagree is you think that because our parents didn't teach a thing, we now as adults lack the personal agency to learn or research those things on our own.

everyone seems to be stuck on parents. My point isn't limited to the input of the parents. I brought up Tariq Nasheed getting the game from the hustlers on the block and not necessarily from his parents.

My mother was an accountant, but she didn't know shit about how credit worked so she spent and maxed out credit cards left and right without my father realizing. When I got my first credit card, I DIDN'T know shit about how it work....SO I TAUGHT MYSELF because I AM now the decision maker for me and my life.

You saw the disaster of your mothers spending habits and didn't want to repeat it. That's negative reinforcement. I myself don't drink or do drugs because of what I saw this do to my uncles as a kid. wanting to avoid harm is innate. No one has to teach that. That's still environment and experience.

I realized SOMETIMES, the best intentioned people just produce bad stock. And SOMETIMES the most damaged people produce the most driven, ambitious, life-changing and life-saving people the world has ever seen. Are the percentages HIGHER if you come from a 2 parent home and a solid foundation yes! But is it a guarantee that you won't become a piece of shit? No!

The "best intentioned people" is vague and lacks context but I appreciate you conceding the percentages for successful kids is higher for 2 parent households than single parent households. If the two parent household coddles their kids they will all grow up to be lazy bums. if the damaged parent 's kid is put in a place of desperation where he has to grow up quickly in order to survive and he's able to get around people who can give him some game than he could grow up to be great. An example of this...Nas. Thing is though, exceptions don't make the rule and anecdotal evidence is only evidence of an anecdote(most of Nas' friends from the street game either didn't amount to much, went to prison, or are dead). However, We're still dealing with environment and experience nevertheless.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

THAT was HIS choice to stay in that infantile lifestyle. Yeah my Grandmother enabled the shit out of him. But he didn't WANT to do more than what she asked of him either!

And if there was no one in his life to tell him this life path was bad, that choice was the only choice he could have possibly made.

We don't make decisions in isolation apart from any knowledge or understanding of alternatives.

 

[BlackWarGod]

I don't think you're understanding my point. I never insinuated that your cousin has no responsibility. In fact, I said the opposite. What I have stated is the reason for why your cousin is in the state he is in. It will ultimately be his task to rectify his situation....But more than likely he won't.

You'll say "that's his choice". I say, it's the only choice he ever had the opportunity to make because of an upbringing and a set of values he was given that he did not choose. Slumming and bumming and going from house to house might be the only thing that can change his path in life.

Your cousin is unfortunately very typical of the males in our community. I'm looking to the root cause of it to solve the problem. Saying "you're a lazy bum" is complaining about the problem but does nothing in getting to the cause and remedying it. there's a reason why there were big brother/big sister programs in our community. There's a reason some parents don't let their kids watch commercials. because people understood why these things happen. Our youth need a different message than the one they're getting at home, from the media, and even from their school.

You seem to believe people can make life choices in isolation from environment and experience devoid of the knowledge and understanding of alternatives. There's no one in any sort of behavioral studies who would agree with this.

How do we “fix” this? Can you change a grown man? I’m leaning towards no, but going forward as a community we can help young fatherless boys by getting ahold of our image and promoting quality traits to them. In this systematically racist school system we’re hand fed cherry picked examples of black men. I’m mainly talking about the dominant society only focusing on the pacifist part of Dr Martin Luther King… and that’s if your lucky, most niggas only get pacified white Jesus lol.

I was blessed to have a very strong father and an even stronger grandfather. These men were my heroes to the point I grew up trying to emulate them in various ways. That’s set me up very well. So for a kid who doesn’t have that, who is going to be his hero? He’s going to have to get it from outside his home. That’s where controlling our image comes into play, if he’s able to idolize non strong black men, he’ll be likely to become one.

 

[Troy]

everyone seems to be stuck on parents. My point isn't limited to the input of the parents. I brought up Tariq Nasheed getting the game from the hustlers on the block and not necessarily from his parents.

But that’s Jay’s point he filled in the gap on his own by learning from the hustler’s on the block. He also talks about when he was in hollywood he would ask the cameramen how to work the cameras and that got him ready to make hidden colors. In your example Tariq could have stayed in the house but no he went out to close the gaps his parents left. I don’t think his mom and dad trained him to go hangout with pimps and drug dealers. He made that choice himself to plug in the gaps his own way.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

But that’s Jay’s point he filled in the gap on his own by learning from the hustler’s on the block. He also talks about when he was in hollywood he would ask the cameramen how to work the cameras and that got him ready to make hidden colors. In your example Tariq could have stayed in the house but no he went out to close the gaps his parents left. I don’t think his mom and dad trained him to go hangout with pimps and drug dealers. He made that choice himself to plug in the gaps his own way.

You're still stuck on parents. His parents didn't give him the foundation. The brothers on the block did. He didn't do anything on his own other than build on the foundation laid for him.

He got gamed up and then went out and executed the plan given to him. He has nothing to execute if he doesn't get the game. Dudes on the block took him under their wing and taught him the hustle. Once the foundation was laid by those who taught him, he started building on it.

This is why mentoring is important.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

When kids grow up to be successes it's ok to credit the parents.

When kids grow up to be failures it's not ok to blame the parents.

Why is this?

 

[Troy]

You're still stuck on parents. His parents didn't give him the foundation. The brothers on the block did. He didn't do anything on his own other than build on the foundation laid for him.

He got gamed up and then went out and executed the plan given to him. He has nothing to execute if he doesn't get the game. Dudes on the block took him under their wing and taught him the hustle. Once the foundation was laid by those who taught him, he started building on it.

This is why mentoring is important.

You’re assuming his parents didn’t give him a foundation. They could have given him a foundation of go to college and get a job but HE didn’t want to follow that foundation. Tariq is not from the hood, he’s from a two parent household, and middle class that nigga went to the hood on his own. He CHOSE his own path and went to get gamed up in the hood because that’s what he wanted his life to be.

 

[Deleted member 191]

everyone seems to be stuck on parents. My point isn't limited to the input of the parents. I brought up Tariq Nasheed getting the game from the hustlers on the block and not necessarily from his parents.

Did you not post this?

Proper upbringing can't be understated on the subject of our people not being the builders, producers, and leaders we need.

We're stuck on "parents" because the basis of your posts is that poor child-rearing damns the child for all-time.
Your whole point is centered on the idea that once we become adults we have no agency and accountability because we're too stupid to be smarter than our situation. You sound like someone who doesn't take responsibility for your actions.

You saw the disaster of your mothers spending habits and didn't want to repeat it. That's negative reinforcement. I myself don't drink or do drugs because of what I saw this do to my uncles as a kid. wanting to avoid harm is innate. No one has to teach that. That's still environment and experience.

Negative reinforcement is something that is learned but you also said no one wants to purposefully harm themselves so it doesn't have to be taught. Well which one is it?

The "best intentioned people" is vague and lacks context but I appreciate you conceding the percentages for successful kids is higher for 2 parent households than single parent households. If the two parent household coddles their kids they will all grow up to be lazy bums. if the damaged parent 's kid is put in a place of desperation where he has to grow up quickly in order to survive and he's able to get around people who can give him some game than he could grow up to be great. An example of this...Nas. Thing is though, exceptions don't make the rule and anecdotal evidence is only evidence of an anecdote(most of Nas' friends from the street game either didn't amount to much, went to prison, or are dead). However, We're still dealing with environment and experience nevertheless.

How is "best intentioned people" vague? People who want what's best for their kids and do what they think is the right thing but still end doing their kids a disservice as they embark on their adulthood, is vague? Ok. I guess that was vague.

And if there was no one in his life to tell him this life path was bad, that choice was the only choice he could have possibly made.

We don't make decisions in isolation apart from any knowledge or understanding of alternatives.

No. He had plenty of people in his life telling him how to be a man and exhibiting the behaviors that are representative of what a man does and should be. HE made the decision to NOT live up to what he was taught and shown.

 

[Sovereign]

When kids grow up to be successes it's ok to credit the parents.

When kids grow up to be failures it's not ok to blame the parents.

Why is this?

That’s a dichotomy you made up in your head. Adults are always responsible for their own actions in society. Hence why even though Charles Manson was abused growing up he still went to prison for the crimes he committed. He should of went to therapy for his issues but instead he decided to kill.

 

[Deleted member 191]

When kids grow up to be successes it's ok to credit the parents.

When kids grow up to be failures it's not ok to blame the parents.

Why is this?

BECAUSE YOU'RE A DAMN ADULT! MOMMY AND DADDY AREN'T PAYING THE BILLS ANYMORE. GRANDMA AND GRANDPA AREN'T KISSING THE BOO BOOS AWAY. YOU ARE NOW ON YOUR OWN!!

You gotta be trollin' for real because you CAN'T be serious with this question.

 

[Jay]

When kids grow up to be successes it's ok to credit the parents.

When kids grow up to be failures it's not ok to blame the parents.

Why is this?

Do you have kids? I have a son and no matter what I tell him he goes to school and does whatever he wants. Sometimes he makes the right choice, sometimes he doesn’t. As a parent you have a lot of influence but very little control when you think about it. They are their own people with their own thoughts and agendas.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

We're stuck on "parents" because the basis of your posts is that poor child-rearing damns the child for all-time.

Nope. Didn't say this either. I also wrote "if the parents don't do it, someone else has to". that's why I brought up Tariq and why I said my point wasn't limited to parents. If you weren't trying to be champion debater on the internet and were actually trying to understand the point made you wouldn't have missed this.

Negative reinforcement is something that is learned but you also said no one wants to purposefully harm themselves so it doesn't have to be taught. Well which one is it?

Another thing career internet debaters do is attempt to mix up the points made and create non-existing dichotomies. I clearly said the thing you don't have to learn is to avoid harm. seeing someone suffering because of certain actions is an example of negative reinforcement. There's no contradiction in what I wrote.

No. He had plenty of people in his life telling him how to be a man and exhibiting the behaviors that are representative of what a man does and should be.

Yeah, I don't believe anyone taught him anything. he probably had people clowning him for being a mama's boy and that was the extent of his "teaching". If no one sat down and taught him the value of manhood, and the necessity of having his own, he'll just stick to what is most comfortable and that's another thing that doesn't need to be taught.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Adults are always responsible for their own actions in society. Hence why even though Charles Manson was abused growing up he still went to prison for the crimes he committed

If you read everything I wrote in this thread and think this is the point I'm making then any further conversation will be unfruitful as you don't understand a word I said.

Point being, the parents can't be responsible for the success if they can't be responsible for the failure.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I have a son and no matter what I tell him he goes to school and does whatever he wants.

ummmmm

As a parent you have a lot of influence

If your son disregards your parental instructions you actually don't have any influence over him.

 

[Sovereign]

If you read everything I wrote in this thread and think this is the point I'm making then any further conversation will be unfruitful as you don't understand a word I said.

Point being, the parents can't be responsible for the success if they can't be responsible for the failure.

Your retort to everyone in here is that we are misunderstanding your argument or are not smart enough to comprehend it. It can’t possibly be that you’re not expressing your viewpoint properly, right? Admitting that would take accountability and you seem allergic to that.

 

[Deleted member 191]

Nope. Didn't say this either. I also wrote "if the parents don't do it, someone else has to". that's why I brought up Tariq and why I said my point wasn't limited to parents. If you weren't trying to be champion debater on the internet and were actually trying to understand the point made you wouldn't have missed this.

If the parents don't do it. Someone else has to. Ok and based on your posts that someone else CAN'T be the person themselves because accountability doesn't exist in your world.

Another thing career internet debaters do is attempt to mix up the points made and create non-existing dichotomies. I clearly said the thing you don't have to learn is to avoid harm. seeing someone suffering because of certain actions is an example of negative reinforcement. There's no contradiction in what I wrote.

You are SO incredibly right because that's EXACTLY what you've done this entire thread.

Yeah, I don't believe anyone taught him anything. he probably had people clowning him for being a mama's boy and that was the extent of his "teaching". If no one sat down and taught him the value of manhood, and the necessity of having his own, he'll just stick to what is most comfortable and that's another thing that doesn't need to be taught.

And he was ABSOLUTELY taught. Because my father was taught and they lived in the same damn house. And SOMEHOW my father heard it and applied it but my uncle didn't

 

[Jay]

ummmmm

If your son disregards your parental instructions you actually don't have any influence over him.

You clearly don’t know the difference between influence and control. I have influence over how he thinks but he has control of what he ultimate does and does not think.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Your retort to everyone in here is that we are misunderstanding your argument or are not smart enough to comprehend it. It can’t possibly be that you’re not expressing your viewpoint properly, right? Admitting that would take accountability and you seem allergic to that.

So you are not saying that I am saying charles manson should not have gone to prison because his parents screwed him up? yes or no?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

So you didn't say you gave your son instructions and then he went to school and contradicted those instructions?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

If the parents don't do it. Someone else has to. Ok and based on your posts that someone else CAN'T be the person themselves because accountability doesn't exist in your world

Never said this. moving on.

You are SO incredibly right because that's EXACTLY what you've done this entire thread.

cool story bro

And he was ABSOLUTELY taught. Because my father was taught and they lived in the same damn house. And SOMEHOW my father heard it and applied it but my uncle didn't

Because your uncle had influences that contradicted the teachings of his parents and your father had influences that reinforced it. No one has the same exact environment and experiences throughout their lives even if they live in the same house. If you think people living in the same house means people go through the exact same things that is an absurd thought.

 

[Deleted member 191]

Never said this. moving on.

You didn't have to you've made the inference quite clear the whole way.

Because your uncle had influences that contradicted the teachings of his parents and your father had influences that reinforced it. No one has the same exact environment and experiences throughout their lives even if they live in the same house. If you think people living in the same house means people go through the exact same things that is an absurd thought.

Cool story bro. If everyone is in the house being taught the same lessons at the same time, then the environment and experience is absolutely the same. If one DECIDES to be rebellious to that,. then THAT is a CHOICE.

You're hell bent on being a contrarian. You go right ahead, sir.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

You didn't have to you've made the inference quite clear the whole way.


Cool story bro. If everyone is in the house being taught the same lessons at the same time, then the environment and experience is absolutely the same. If one DECIDES to be rebellious to that,. then THAT is a CHOICE.

You're hell bent on being a contrarian. You go right ahead, sir.

You are speaking of an instance where the father is telling his kids something. I clearly said, throughout their lives. They don't talk to the same people, go the same places, make the same friends. Unless your dad and uncle were Siamese twins, They experienced different things bud.

Selective reading is another internet debate champ tactic.

 

[The Honorable]

You are speaking of an instance where the father is telling his kids something. I clearly said, throughout their lives. They don't talk to the same people, go the same places, make the same friends. Unless your dad and uncle were Siamese twins, They experienced different things bud.

Selective reading is another internet debate champ tactic.

Why do you feel the need to throw personal jabs at people? Everyone has their opinion and let it be that. No one called you out your name or disparaged you on here. We're you looking for a hive mind? You came to the wrong place for that. Respect your Black family on here please.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

No one called you out your name or disparaged you on here.

Except the guy I'm dealing with. everyone else has kept it classy.

 

[Georgiacarolina]

Therapy is really important because sometimes you don’t realize how damaged you may be until later in life.

 

[RCNAL]

The majority of Blacks were raised in a 'non traditional' home, mostly single moms. Some grandmothers, whatever. The vast majority of us were raised without being properly prepared for adulthood either because the person raising us didn't know better and/or didn't care to. Jason Black is correct about a great many of the Civil Rights generation and them 'ooooooooooold nigg*s'

Whatever it is, it is what it is. The fact the majority of us were raised like that is a result of white supremacy systemically attacking the traditional black family (pre Civil Rights 75-80 percent of Blacks were from a 2 parent home).

So, now that we have identified the problem and its causes, we deal with it as best we can, individually and as a group. The former (individually) being the easiest because you control you but you can't control others. Some of us will evolve into socially acceptable functioning people, some of us won't. Again, it is what it is.

The one great thing about this movement, this site, and the way I presume we all think (Black empowerment) is that it will by default create an environment, community that will make it off code NOT to give your children the tools to prepare them for adulthood. Not just teaching about white supremacy but also the morals, ethics, the tools, etc. That child will be given an inheritance and be taught to grow it and make it bigger for his or her children creating generational wealth.

We can spend a lot of time on arguing how we got here, which has some merit but the majority of the time would be wiser to be spent on how we grow and get better NOW.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

We're you looking for a hive mind?

No, but I may have ran into one.