My thought exactly, have then compete among each other! 💯There needs to be a She-He ONLY section. No cap.
Adding a new division for other genders is absolutely modifying tradition. Keeping tradition would be to have a MTF have to compete against Males no matter what.The problem is we do not want to modify tradition to accommodate reality. We do not want to adapt to new information. Dividing by sex worked well enough in the past, but obviously it's not working anymore. The cat's not going back in the bag, adapt.
I mean this is legit the message they are painting to me. That and they long for the old days where blacks were slaves, women were nothing more than housewives pumping out babies, and they had all the land.They know about this fact very well. Believe me, this is all very strategic and they will destroy society and any remaining order in this world to ensure that all Black people permanently stay at the bottom. And that’s exactly why we keep seeing thinly veiled racists and some delusional Black people (especially on Twitter) continuing to wrongfully compare the strength and bone density of Black women to the strength and bone density of white men in order to justify why men cosplaying as women should compete with women in sports and stay in women's shelters. They are resorting to scientific racism and they are using racist, white supremacist rhetoric as well as misogynoir to justify this fuckery. All to rig the game because they can't actually win in a fair world. Unforgivable and shameful.
I just see the beginnings of a pattern. There is a spectrum that is genderless. Just like there is a spectrum of sexuality. We know now that people are born in between the sexes. We know now that people fall somewhere in between the absolute binary of sexuality. I think it better suits us to create models modeled after reality. Humanity is not going to get less complicated.
I'd argue they are being ignored. The establishment isn't doing anything. It isn't changing, they're just integrating "lunch counters". There is no work in just allowing them to compete.
The problem is we do not want to modify tradition to accommodate reality. We do not want to adapt to new information. Dividing by sex worked well enough in the past, but obviously it's not working anymore. The cat's not going back in the bag, adapt.
Where have I caked for anyone?
As a black same gender loving black man, I can see things that you cannot just like as a black woman you can see some things that I cannot. This is being treated as a black and white issue in which we have all the information/all possible perspectives or the only that matters. From my perspective, that's exactly what trips us up. The opposition is going to use whatever is available. They count on us fighting it with myopic vision.
My position is our established norms have to and will adapt to us (humanity) in our journey of self-discovery and not the other way around. Of course, I can see how it may look like I'm caping for a specific group but that isn't explicitly accurate.
Yo Czharcus if you reply to this please address the points head on. Sovereign accuses you of having an alternate agenda in a B1 space. If it’s untrue please state why in concrete terms so that the community understands your intention.This thread more so than others, to me, demonstrates your agenda which in my estimation to be an LGBTQIA+ agenda. Why do I state this?
I present Post A which I believe to be your desired end state.
You desire a non-binary society and any detrimental impacts it may have to women or Black people is worth the end goal. In this instance, the erasure of Female competition is simply a cost of a non-binary society. In other threads, hypersexualized depictions of Black men was simply a cost of a non-binary society. You are willing to sacrifice any and everything to push forth an LGBTQIA+ agenda.
Notice how in this thread the consensus is not in denying Lia’s humanity or right to be who he/she wishes to be? The consensus is in everyone having the right to fair competition chiefly biological females. How is that an unfair or archaic concept? Why do you take offense to such a reasonable request? I posit it’s due to the fact that it does not further your agenda of a genderless society.
Having 3 divisions: Male, Female, and Open allows for fair competition but since it still respects biological sex, it is unacceptable to you. Because your goal isn’t fair competition, it’s to shoehorn in an agenda of a genderless society.
Hence why you always have to assert that there being an issue with any resolution outside of the one you are prescribing.
When MTF get to compete in Female competitions you write that off as “being ignored”:
When The Honorable suggested that we add a 3rd division you claimed that he was unwilling to modify tradition:
When ART mentioned that we are being silenced, shamed, and attacked for not accepting the LGBT agenda and how White Supremacy has used LGBT as a method to attack us you basically said: “you’re not gay so you don’t understand”.
You are not B1 one bit. The only difference between you and the White Supremacists who flood our spaces to gaslight us about racism is that you have a sexual spin to your agenda. So when White Supremacy shoots its pink cannonballs across the big blue sea at our ship you are there to tell us that they aren’t cannonballs and that we should focus on what’s for dinner in the galley.
No thanks.
I hope you’re intellectually honest enough to admit it so that we are all operating from a common understanding.
I keep talking around it because it is not relevant to my point. I have already acknowledged sex based divisions have "worked" (probably have always been leaving people out) but we are now aware, it's not enough so we have the opportunity to devise new ways. The issues that we are having today are because we don't what to devise new ways.You conveniently keep ignoring that Males are stronger and faster than Females which is why there is sex based separation in sports.
This framing has nothing to do with me.So yes, we need to expand the divisions to be more inclusive but to tear it all down to fit an LGBT agenda is ludicrous.
I said the current system is not enough. I don't know what the metric would be so I can only go so far with offering solutions.So do we need to evolve? Yes! But we can do that by making another division that allows people that don’t fall cleanly between Male or Female to compete. You say this is not good enough but offer no solutions. You just want us to adopt the LGBT standpoint or we’re just being boneheads.
I am not aware of the places they have added new divisions for other genders. I figure this video/conversation is evidence that's not happened, the tradition is still in place.Adding a new division for other genders is absolutely modifying tradition. Keeping tradition would be to have a MTF have to compete against Males no matter what.
The video is evidence that the current attempt to solve the issue (letting biological males compete against biological females) is a failure. So now we have to figure out how to push forward and a way forward is a separate division for transsexuals.I am not aware of the places they have added new divisions for other genders. I figure this video/conversation is evidence that's not happened, the tradition is still in place.
I keep talking around it because it is not relevant to my point. I have already acknowledged sex based divisions have "worked" (probably have always been leaving people out) but we are now aware, it's not enough so we have the opportunity to devise new ways. The issues that we are having today are because we don't what to devise new ways.
"Men are stronger than women" is well enough if sex was actually binary, but we know now that it isn't. New information has come into our awareness. As I have said, adding new gender divisions may be the best we can do right now. That's fine. But it does leave an opening for this debate to happening again when we inevitably get newer information.
I'm just thinking instead of adding new rulers, we modify the one we have to acknowledge the reality of spectrum then segment the spectrum (on which everyone fits, today and tomorrow) accordingly.
Who here said that the current system is enough?I said the current system is not enough. I don't know what the metric would be so I can only go so far with offering solutions.
You just want me to want you to adopt the LGBT standpoint (I don't even know what that is) because it's habitual.
I believe it would be beneficial to modify the way we decide who competes with who because gender is showing cracks as is evident in this conversation. We used gender because it was what we knew, but that does not mean it is the ONLY metric that can be used to decide a fair competition.You desire a non-binary society and any detrimental impacts it may have to women or Black people is worth the end goal.… In this instance, the erasure of Female competition is simply a cost of a non-binary society.
I still don't know exactly what the agenda is so I cannot say in all honesty it is impossible that I am pushing it. The things I have heard about what the agenda is supposed to do is impossible so it's a nonfactor to me. I don't really care if I am pushing a benign agenda.You are willing to sacrifice any and everything to push forth an LGBTQIA+ agenda.
Yes. If I come into the bank where you are the security guard, I take all the money and you do not obstruct me, I regard it as you ignoring me.When MTF get to compete in Female competitions you write that off as “being ignored”
What I know of the LGBT agenda is holistically benign. If anything, it's our belief in and subsequent reaction to it's imagined effects that gives it any power.When @ART mentioned that we are being silenced, shamed, and attacked for not accepting the LGBT agenda and how White Supremacy has used LGBT as a method to attack us you basically said: “you’re not gay so you don’t understand”.
I am a spiritual (not religious) person. I regard B1 as representing something much more than just black people. If some of us can be denied justice, justice doesn't exist for anybody. I recognize black people as being put in an acceptable state of deliberate yet unconscious (paradox) perpetual injustice that ultimately denies it to everyone. so I understand justice for black people isn't only going to benefit black people. I am B1 because justice on the planet literally has to go through us and it likely has to start with us.You are not B1 one bit.
Very good points. I hope that you regard my honesty as honest.I hope you’re intellectually honest enough to admit it so that we are all operating from a common understanding.
I am probably unusual in this space as I come from a prospective that is unusual from what I have observed. I addressed as much as I could as accurately as I could, but I cannot control how I am perceived. It is inevitable that I be misunderstood.
I don't see officials attempting to solve the issue. I see them ignoring it.The video is evidence that the current attempt to solve the issue (letting biological males compete against biological females) is a failure. So now we have to figure out how to push forward and a way forward is a separate division for transsexuals.
Sex is not showing cracks at all. Males are stronger and faster than Females. A Male got to swim against Females, beat them all and became national champion. We already knew this would happen if Males were allowed to compete against Females.I believe it would be beneficial to modify the way we decide who competes with who because gender is showing cracks as is evident in this conversation. We used gender because it was what we knew, but that does not mean it is the ONLY metric that can be used to decide a fair competition.
But that‘s not an accurate analogy. Originally you were not allowed to go into the bank because the bank was a credit union just for school employees and you worked as a mechanic. You claimed it to be unfair because at your job you train people which is like a school so they let you start coming into the credit union. They changed their behaviors to accommodate you, you cannot say they did nothing.Yes. If I come into the bank where you are the security guard, I take all the money and you do not obstruct me, I regard it as you ignoring me.
I still don't know exactly what the agenda is so I cannot say in all honesty it is impossible that I am pushing it. The things I have heard about what the agenda is supposed to do is impossible so it's a nonfactor to me. I don't really care if I am pushing a benign agenda.
These statements contradict each other. Do you or do you not understand what the agenda is?What I know of the LGBT agenda is holistically benign. If anything, it's our belief in and subsequent reaction to it's imagined effects that gives it any power.
am a spiritual (not religious) person. I regard B1 as representing something much more than just black people. If some of us can be denied justice, justice doesn't exist for anybody. I recognize black people as being put in an acceptable state of deliberate yet unconscious (paradox) perpetual injustice that ultimately denies it to everyone. so I understand justice for black people isn't only going to benefit black people. I am B1 because justice on the planet literally has to go through us and it likely has to start with us.
So from a lower perspective, I'd say you're probably right but from the highest prospective, you're very wrong.
You are describing a spectrum based on sex/gender. I'm just saying there is probably a better metric that does the same thing, more efficiently and would easily accommodate newer information as it is revealed.It’s not irrelevant because there is no sex that is stronger, faster, or more dominant than a male so if you shuffle the divisions around based on some fluid concept you can easily disadvantage biological females. Let’s just say there are 4 sexes:
Male
Hybrid - Male Dominant
Hybrid - Female Dominant
Female
Hybrid - Male Dominants would be too strong for Females but too weak to compete with Males. Hybrid - Female Dominant would have the same issue, too strong for Females but too weak to compete against the Males. So it would make sense to make a separate division for the Hybrids aka “Open” and the very few Hybrid - Male Dominant that can compete in the Male division have the choice of competing there.
I have presented a solution which tries to account for unknown unknowns but the metric for my solution is beyond my awareness so it is not satisfying.Lastly, you’re the only one not offering solutions so how can you say anything? You need to put something on the table if you have all the answers.
I said nothing about gender. Male and Female are from the universe. One person has sperm, one has the egg, and those two come together to make more humans. The Male is made to be the protector and the provider so he is rough and rugged while the Female is softer and more gentle because she is there to be a balance to the Male. She is the family administrator. The Male provides stability and security and the Female provides order and peace.You are describing a spectrum based on sex/gender. I'm just saying there is probably a better metric that does the same thing, more efficiently and would easily accommodate newer information as it is revealed.
I have presented a solution which tries to account for unknown unknowns but the metric for my solution is beyond my awareness so it is not satisfying.
Apparently it is, people are slipping through.Sex is not showing cracks at all.
Changed their behavior from doing something to doing nothing.They changed their behaviors to accommodate you, you cannot say they did nothing.
What I know of it is it's supposed to turn straight black men gay and/or emasculate them. Is that accurate? Both things are literally impossible so it is directly benign, but indirectly, the belief that something is actually happening as a result of this agenda is damaging (relatively speaking).These statements contradict each other. Do you or do you not understand what the agenda is?
… depending upon whether or not you're coming from a holistic understanding.So yes, you are not B1 thanks for admitting it.
This is how Black Lives Matter hijacked the Black American social movement in Ferguson. They changed the conversation from "Stop state sanctioned violence against Black Americans" to "We are about giving a voice to LGBTQIA+ Black people who have been excluded from Social Movements".I am a spiritual (not religious) person. I regard B1 as representing something much more than just black people. If some of us can be denied justice, justice doesn't exist for anybody. I recognize black people as being put in an acceptable state of deliberate yet unconscious (paradox) perpetual injustice that ultimately denies it to everyone. so I understand justice for black people isn't only going to benefit black people. I am B1 because justice on the planet literally has to go through us and it likely has to start with us.
So from a lower perspective, I'd say you're probably right but from the highest prospective, you're very wrong.
Well 6ZEROS is B1. No one cares if you're gay, we care if you're B1. You could be a non-binary pansexual asexual cistransgender TERF and it does not matter if you're B1. That's how we get down here.I am probably unusual in this space as I come from a prospective that is unusual from what I have observed. I addressed as much as I could as accurately as I could, but I cannot control how I am perceived. It is inevitable that I be misunderstood.
If my prospective is unwanted, I will leave.
I was being presumptuous. I thought you believed "male" and "female" fell into one or both categories: sex/gender.I said nothing about gender. Male and Female are from the universe. One person has sperm, one has the egg, and those two come together to make more humans. The Male is made to be the protector and the provider so he is rough and rugged while the Female is softer and more gentle because she is there to be a balance to the Male. She is the family administrator. The Male provides stability and security and the Female provides order and peace.
Since Males are made by the universe to be the strongest it makes no sense for them to compete against Females athletically. You keep trying to discredit the viability of a 3rd division but have provided NOTHING in the way of a better alternative that respects Female right to competition.
I never claimed anyone was wrong.So basically you have nothing to offer outside of telling us why we are wrong about how we feel.
This is not how Black Lives Matter hijacked the black American social movement in Ferguson. They did that with money. With money, they changed the narrative. With a belief in "social justice" as something separate from justice, they changed the narrative. With the belief that justice can be fragmented, localized and sectioned off into specific groups is how they changed the narrative.This is how Black Lives Matter hijacked the Black American social movement in Ferguson. They changed the conversation from "Stop state sanctioned violence against Black Americans" to "We are about giving a voice to LGBTQIA+ Black people who have been excluded from Social Movements".
B1 is NOT about something much more than Black People, it literally stands for Black First. You are not B1, you are more inline with the previous generations of Black people who were all about coalitions. B1 is about putting our commonality as Black people before every other ideology. A B1 Skateboarder sees life as a Black person first and then as a skateboarder. So if another skateboarder says something Anti-Black he/she will respond as a Black person would respond and not as a skateboarder.
So basically what you‘re doing but with George Soros backing. You are literally on here defending LGBT and then telling us that we don’t see Black Empowerment the right way because we are not caping for everyone. With the right funding you could be an Alicia Garza. You’d come into B1 spaces and dilute the conversation by injecting everyone’s issues into it. You’d defend LGBT and then tell all the Black people that their agenda is wrong.This is not how Black Lives Matter hijacked the black American social movement in Ferguson. They did that with money. With money, they changed the narrative. With a belief in "social justice" as something separate from justice, they changed the narrative. With the belief that justice can be fragmented, localized and sectioned off into specific groups is how they changed the narrative.
We allow them the opening when we frame justice for black people as merely justice for black people. With an understanding that justice for black people is the exact same thing as justice for all, that without justice for black people, justice doesn't exist, there is no where for the narrative to go.
I am probably unusual in this space as I come from a prospective that is unusual from what I have observed. I addressed as much as I could as accurately as I could, but I cannot control how I am perceived. It is inevitable that I be misunderstood.
If my prospective is unwanted, I will leave.
I don't think there's any misunderstanding at all. You're being pretty loud and clear now.I am a spiritual (not religious) person. I regard B1 as representing something much more than just black people. If some of us can be denied justice, justice doesn't exist for anybody. I recognize black people as being put in an acceptable state of deliberate yet unconscious (paradox) perpetual injustice that ultimately denies it to everyone. so I understand justice for black people isn't only going to benefit black people. I am B1 because justice on the planet literally has to go through us and it likely has to start with us.
So from a lower perspective, I'd say you're probably right but from the highest prospective, you're very wrong.
I did not change the subject from black people's justice to something else. I did not defend LGBT. I did not suggest anyone was seeing black empowerment the wrong way. I did not call anyone's agenda wrong.So basically what you‘re doing but with George Soros backing. You are literally on here defending LGBT and then telling us that we don’t see Black Empowerment the right way because we are not caping for everyone. With the right funding you could be an Alicia Garza. You’d come into B1 spaces and dilute the conversation by injecting everyone’s issues into it. You’d defend LGBT and then tell all the Black people that their agenda is wrong.
Your first post was in defense of transsexuals. Nowhere throughout the post did you even try to empathize with a B1 perspective. See below:I did not defend LGBT.
Since the transsexual community is likely not in control of division creation, I'm not sure if it is them that need to develop "common sense". The cis gender community was probably not going to change things just off the ask of the transsexual community so we are probably looking at the only way proposals like yours would be considered.
. I did not suggest anyone was seeing black empowerment the wrong way.
We allow them the opening when we frame justice for black people as merely justice for black people. With an understanding that justice for black people is the exact same thing as justice for all, that without justice for black people, justice doesn't exist, there is no where for the narrative to go.
I did not change the subject from black people's justice to something else.
czharcus said:We allow them the opening when we frame justice for black people as merely justice for black people. With an understanding that justice for black people is the exact same thing as justice for all
This was an accurate statement. Most everything else you said was projection and actually has nothing to do with me.But what pisses me off with your response is the blatant admission that you're basically using us. The B1 agenda, philosophy and platform is just a means to an end for you.
Nigga you just be babbling on here. White Supremacy aint no god damn illusion nigga they got muhfuggin guns and aint afraid to use them to steal and kill so what is you on?This is not how Black Lives Matter hijacked the black American social movement in Ferguson. They did that with money. With money, they changed the narrative. With a belief in "social justice" as something separate from justice, they changed the narrative. With the belief that justice can be fragmented, localized and sectioned off into specific groups is how they changed the narrative.
We allow them the opening when we frame justice for black people as merely justice for black people. With an understanding that justice for black people is the exact same thing as justice for all, that without justice for black people, justice doesn't exist, there is no where for the narrative to go.
I understand the dualistic nature of B1. Fundamentally, it puts us in the same boat as previous generations of black people who were about coalitions. Both accept white supremacy's fundamental premise which says justice can be fractured and localized. Both are fighting white supremacy on its terms, by its rules. That's why we can be undermined. We are playing in a world envisioned by them.
But it is fundamentally untrue, an illusion we just don't question. Justice cannot be fractured and localized. The real coalition is the entire planet. You don't have to convince people to join you when they know it is in their best interest to do so and it would literally hurt them if they don't.
B1, I don't doubt, was originally meant to fight them on their home turf by creating our own home turf. I reject that interpretation because it literally validates them then fights them. "Here's your sword, now let's fight." They don't have a home turf, they don't have weapons. They don't have 2 legs to stand on. White supremacy isn't even a house of cards, it's a whole damn illusion.
Gender is differnet from sex tho hun, regardless of how your body sees your private part its your brain that deterrmines these things and your spirit. Trans actually happens in utero so it is not even in the persons control. And thats why i said find ways to make it fair or as close to as possible. because there are 7 3 female centers playing in the wnba right now and to me that is crazy but since she is a bio female thats fine. Sports never not have a competititve edge but i think thats the best fix is just make her live 5 or 10 as a girl before competing and before puberty.Gender may be a social construct but Sex is from the universe and no surgery til this day can change your sex. If a MTF gets their penis removed and gets the simulated vagina, they have to use the splint in their neovag daily why? Because their body sees a hole and thinks “there’s a wound here, let’s patch it up”. Their body does not recognize the hole as a vagina because the body was programmed from the universe as a Male.
That’s why allowing MTFs to compete against women is ridiculous because their body is always going to be Male no matter what. The second they stop taking drugs to reverse their natural bodily function, their male privilege will surface quickly as it is the default state.
This is an accurate statement. I agree with your term of projection: I was 100% projecting how much of an adversary to black people you actually are by presenting your anti-black agenda.Most everything else you said was projection and actually has nothing to do with me.
You're a Black dude who identifies as gay more than you do Black. However, you joined a Black owned, operated and moderated platform, specifically FOR Black people that UNAPOLOGETICALLY, UNCOMPROMISINGLY, supports a Black first agenda. You knew that's what this platform was all about and you equally knew that wasn't what you were all about when you signed up. You consistently cape for and go out of your way to articulate the LGBTQ+ perspective even when we bring up legitimate concerns about how the Black community is negatively impacted. You NEVER fail to swoop in and be the token nigga superhero the LGBTQ+ community neither needs nor asked for in your discourse with us.
all your arguments do is prove you're cooning for the LGBTQ+ movement. We explain why transgender females competing against biological females creates an unfair imbalance in the sport and you swoop in to tell us why we aren't "thinking outside the box." We posit why this will hurt black females because white men will now cry "I am woman hear me roar!" and scholarship opportunities that would and could have gone to our girls won't. And your response is some dismissive non-answer because deep down you want to live in a genderless world. So your use of "Unusual" to describe yourself isn't really accurate here, unless you meant you had the testicular fortitude to come to this platform and promote a known white supremacist anti-black agenda in an EXCLUSIVELY black first space; then ok, I'll concede that point.
But this statement is interesting to me because it is correct. I am using B1 as a means to an end. That end is justice for black people (Isn't that also why you subscribe to it?) because if it does not exist for us, it does not exist. The ego does not want to believe what I'm saying because it does not apply dualisticly (which is where the ego lives) so it understandably, pisses you off.
It was more so a redirection of misplaced resentment because I did paraphrase that the transsexual community did not make things the way they are so they cannot change them to be more fair, but I take your point.Your first post was in defense of transsexuals. Nowhere throughout the post did you even try to empathize with a B1 perspective.
I said that it would be more beneficial for us to understand that is what black empowerment ultimately means (leads to). Liberation for just us simply isn't possible. We can fight for our liberation and even hope that it will be only for us but that ain't how the universe works. Our liberation ultimately brings everyone else's liberation simultaneously. That is why white supremacy fights so hard to ensure we do not get liberated. No one is currently liberated because we are not. White supremacy is bondage for everybody.You said that we need to be looking at Black Empowerment as liberation for all and that our view point of liberation from just us is opening the door for the white supremacy to attack.
I'm not diverting attention from justice for us to justice for everyone, but illuminating that they are the exact same thing so it serves no purpose but injustice for everyone to ignore black people's justice.You are diverting attention from justice for us to justice for everyone. You’re on here double talking like we are not smart enough to read what you are writing.
Gender is differnet from sex tho hun, regardless of how your body sees your private part its your brain that deterrmines these things and your spirit. Trans actually happens in utero so it is not even in the persons control. And thats why i said find ways to make it fair or as close to as possible. because there are 7 3 female centers playing in the wnba right now and to me that is crazy but since she is a bio female thats fine. Sports never not have a competititve edge but i think thats the best fix is just make her live 5 or 10 as a girl before competing and before puberty.
Right. And you let your views and observations be known and in response, I take issue with how you are seeing and interpreting things regarding this matter / subject.As a black same gender loving black man, I can see things that you cannot just like as a black woman you can see some things that I cannot.
More like "I'm a Gay Man and what I say goes and if it doesn't go, then it needs to ASAP. Not everything is about you or Black or White!"That's "I'm Gay and I Say So" talk.
The new metric is that if you are not born female (XX, unless you're a female born with something rare like Turner's Syndrome), then you cannot and should not compete against females. Do you agree with that?The problem is we do not want to modify tradition to accommodate reality. We do not want to adapt to new information. Dividing by sex worked well enough in the past, but obviously it's not working anymore. The cat's not going back in the bag, adapt.
That's basically what I've been saying the whole time. Adapt. Develop a new metric for divisions.
Pause. Full Stop.There is probably a better way which doesn't involve women being subject to accusations of being male.
Yes, it is the best that we can do.If the current method was good enough by itself, this conversation would not exist anywhere. Humans are still evolving and the current method is showing cracks as evident by this very conversation. We're only at the beginning of this debate. Maybe adding gender divisions is the best that we can do at the moment. That's fine.
I just see the beginnings of a pattern. There is a spectrum that is genderless. Just like there is a spectrum of sexuality. We know now that people are born in between the sexes. We know now that people fall somewhere in between the absolute binary of sexuality. I think it better suits us to create models modeled after reality. Humanity is not going to get less complicated.
I noticed and suspected that with his responses in the other threads such as the one about the new Profiled: The Black Man series by Tina Knowles as well. I'm wondering if he ever dated or slept with a white or non-Black guy and afterwards, he got "confused" as Nelly Fuller put it. But in his mind, he's not "confused", but more "open-minded" to the world at the expense of compromising his B1 stance (if he ever had one to begin with).You know what’s truly sad in all of this? We have a Black man on here advocating for White men to be able to trample on the rights of others because he shares a commonality in them being LGBT.
A lot of them commit suicide even after transitioning. It's unfortunate, however, they can find a way to cope without infringing on the rights of others. If they still off themselves just like the rest of the people who weren't trans merely because they can't handle reality, then we cannot be responsible for that. Sorry.Strongly disagree gender is a construct that determines your whole life. This is unstoppable people have the choice now the technology is there and the alternative is suicide. So we need to find ways to deal with it and make it fair.
Sex is binary."Men are stronger than women" is well enough if sex was actually binary, but we know now that it isn't. New information has come into our awareness. As I have said, adding new gender divisions may be the best we can do right now. That's fine. But it does leave an opening for this debate to happening again when we inevitably get newer information.
You put God first before B1 I'm guessing. Okay.I am a spiritual (not religious) person. I regard B1 as representing something much more than just black people. If some of us can be denied justice, justice doesn't exist for anybody. I recognize black people as being put in an acceptable state of deliberate yet unconscious (paradox) perpetual injustice that ultimately denies it to everyone. so I understand justice for black people isn't only going to benefit black people. I am B1 because justice on the planet literally has to go through us and it likely has to start with us.
So from a lower perspective, I'd say you're probably right but from the highest prospective, you're very wrong.
Do you need Lasik Eye Surgery or?I don't see officials attempting to solve the issue. I see them ignoring it.
u said a male will always be a male which ok but thats stating a sex fact not a gender fact. You cant say that a man will always be a man because clearly that isnt the case. and u gave the example of a trans womans vagina what im telling you is it wont stop so the best thing that can be done is to find a fair way or middle path. If i missed ur point tho lmkWhat does that have to do with what I said?
We are not bodies. I agree, it is offensive to call this an illusion to someone that believes otherwise. And I apologize if I've triggered anyone to suffering. Everyone has the right to figure this out on their own time. I do not intend to force this knowledge on anyone, but point out the belief that we are the body is the cause of ALL our suffering.Nigga you just be babbling on here. White Supremacy aint no god damn illusion nigga they got muhfuggin guns and aint afraid to use them to steal and kill so what is you on?
It's offensive for you to say this:
Is just an illusion. All this LGBT shit you yapping about is an illusion too so why you keep talkin bout that shit?
Wow. It sounds like the trans being "ignored" is actually a great thing for them and a bad thing for us. Yep, just like too many people are "ignoring" the whites who commit crimes, say and do racist shit, and get away with murder daily.Yes. If I come into the bank where you are the security guard, I take all the money and you do not obstruct me, I regard it as you ignoring me.
i agree with finding the path for reparations black trauma etc but that is the fact of life there are trans people in this world since kmt. We need to find ways to deal with the issue at hand, and the only logical problem people say is because sports. So just find a cut off period that simple. For the girls saying they cant compete because of her male advantages i mean maybe but there like 10 percent trans people in the world. I doubt alot of them want to play sports. and a person who transitions before puberty i dont think u can point to any advantages they would have that a bigger girl wouldnt.A lot of them commit suicide even after transitioning. It's unfortunate, however, they can find a way to cope without infringing on the rights of others. If they still off themselves just like the rest of the people who weren't trans merely because they can't handle reality, then we cannot be responsible for that. Sorry.
You say we need to find ways to deal with it? No, we need to find ways to deal with Black collective suffering and give Foundational Black American people cash Reparations and what we are actually owed. America decided enslaving, murdering, and oppressing Black people was and still is okay. Time for America and its beneficiaries to own up, pay up, deal with their sins, and begin reparations for FBA people once and for all and to stop oppressing us.
All this damn energy society has for trying to understand, help, fund, refund, cater to and accommodate the others. Where is the same damn societal energy and concern for Black people and our actual needs? Priorities continue to be in the wrong damn place.
I'm sure you know I'm not going to be able to respond to this, but I know it won't matter what I say if I did anyway.Right. And you let your views and observations be known and in response, I take issue with how you are seeing and interpreting things regarding this matter / subject.
I am seeing things from not only a Black woman's perspective, but I am seeing things that are grounded in facts and reality that are not distorted by outside agendas, which are based on emotion / feelings (and in some cases, fantasy), that are still being pushed by lobbies (such as big pharma, the healthcare industry, corporations, media outlets, and Hollywood), rich private donors and lobbyists, and special interest groups.
Once again, the fact is that males are physically and biologically stronger and faster than females. Human males are physically built for war, hunting, fighting, and protecting others. Human females are not, we were made for softer tasks to maintain balance and harmony within our species. Exceptions (such as intersexed people) are not the rule.
We are aware that sexuality can be a spectrum and that not every male is a super hyper macho man and not every female is a very soft, delicate, meek woman.
A femme gay male, non-binary person born male, and a transwoman could compete with straight males... Just like an AG lesbian female can compete with a non-binary person born female, a transman not on hormones, and straight females.
You don't have to like facts and reality, but just because someone is gay/bi, feels masculine, feminine, non-binary, or a different person / gender altogether doesn't mean that we have to allow them to compete with or share the same spaces meant for the opposite sex. The fuck I look like pissing in a urinal for?
You may be able to "change" your gender, but XX (female) or XY (male) are the only two sexes. Anything else is an exception such as a disorder, syndrome, or anomaly.
More like "I'm a Gay Man and what I say goes and if it doesn't go, then it needs to ASAP. Not everything is about you or Black or White!"
The new metric is that if you are not born female (XX, unless you're a female born with something rare like Turner's Syndrome), then you cannot and should not compete against females. Do you agree with that?
Pandora's box keeps staying open and the cats keep staying out of the bag because TPTB along with the dense fools and selfish tools that drank the damn Kool Aid won't press the damn "Restore to Default" button and enforce responsible order. Instead, y'all keeping saying "stay mad", "shut up and deal with it TERF", "suck my girldick b!tch", "die cis scum die", "why don't you do some research and stop being ignorant and transphobic", and "adapt!"
Adapt? I am not adapting to lunacy, buffonery, disorder, more forms of systematic racism, more sexism, and more inequality and injustice. I'll be damned. I'm not fucking adding stupid freaking pronouns to my damn bio or profiles either. Have you ever heard of a thing called "Reasonable Accommodations"?
Allowing transwomen to compete with women is not a reasonable accommodation and this Liam Thomas story proves and confirms that once again.
As a reasonable accommodation, would it be okay if I told you that you have to sit at the table with the Proud Boys and allow them to call you the n-word for shits and giggles in order to make them feel "more welcomed" and for you to do nothing in order to not "sour the party", your personal feelings be damned?
How about allowing exhibitionists and nudists to shop at stores nude?
Allowing public sex in transportation centers to help combating kink shaming? (Already happening in places like NYC because "anything goes" there)
Allowing an adult that identifies as a transaged "5-year-old" person to date and compete against underaged minors?
Allowing a transracial person to identify as Black and benefit from things made for only Black people?
Or telling you to use a wheelchair so that other people confined to wheelchairs don't feel alone and out of place?
Or dumbing down the entire class to cater to 2 slow people in the class?
Or teaching a whole college course to a class of 1st graders to cater to a genius in the class?
Or taking away more funding from already impoverished Black students to cater to Latino immigrant students that need to learn English and whatnot in order to surpass you in opportunities, jobs, multilingual abilities, and leverage in society?
Lift all boats right?
Just adapt, learn to accept everyone at the expense of yourself, and learn some Spanish.
Even though you learned full English in grade school for free while I only got some half-assed Spanish courses in that same grade school for only 3 years.
Even though Latinos generally alienate themselves from and discriminate against Black people, including Black Spanish speakers, in places such as the job market in various ways.
Pause. Full Stop.
This is braindead foolery.
You are clearly invested and have bought into this new age nonsense.
Put the styrofoam cup of Kool-Aid down and come back into reality.
It's not an accusation, it's a fact.
Transwomen are male and transmen are female.
It's the inconvenient truth.
There is nothing wrong with that.
Transpeople and their existence shouldn't supersede non-Black women and their existence, and Black people and our existence.
Transwomen are transwomen.
Women are women.
Grapefruit is Grapefruit.
Grape is Grape.
Yes, it is the best that we can do.
Transwomen are a type of male.
Transmen are a type of female.
Non-binary persons are born male or female.
They can either compete amongst the sexes they were born as without any hormones, or make their own groups and competitions with or without all the hormones they want.
Also, just because humanity is complicated doesn't mean that we have to make shit even more unnecessarily complicated. Spirituality, Philosophy, and Science are all separate from each other. They all have their purposes. Not everything needs to be met with a philosophical approach.
"Who is Black? Who is White? Are colors even real? Maybe what we see isn't actually as real as we like to think? Are we all taller in a different dimension? Maybe short people are actually tall and it's all subjective, you know. Think Bigger!"
I noticed and suspected that with his responses in the other threads such as the one about the new Profiled: The Black Man series by Tina Knowles as well. I'm wondering if he ever dated or slept with a white or non-Black guy and afterwards, he got "confused" as Nelly Fuller put it. But in his mind, he's not "confused", but more "open-minded" to the world at the expense of compromising his B1 stance (if he ever had one to begin with).
Then you still got racist white LGBT talking about they share a commonality with us because they are "being oppressed" like Black people too, are "one of the girls", or they are a "Black woman in a man's body" to justify any guttersnipe, ghetto, wretched, uncouth, slutty, disrespectful, drama-loving, and repulsive behavior that they have. Basically thinking they are "Black women" because they adhere to the tired ass, toxic "Black women are loud, angry, ghetto hoes" stereotypes while being extra as fuck on top of it. I think the fuck not. Put some fucking respect on Black women's name.
I don't think there's any misunderstanding at all. You're being pretty loud and clear now.
You're a Black dude who identifies as gay more than you do Black. However, you joined a Black owned, operated and moderated platform, specifically FOR Black people that UNAPOLOGETICALLY, UNCOMPROMISINGLY, supports a Black first agenda. You knew that's what this platform was all about and you equally knew that wasn't what you were all about when you signed up. You consistently cape for and go out of your way to articulate the LGBTQ+ perspective even when we bring up legitimate concerns about how the Black community is negatively impacted. You NEVER fail to swoop in and be the token nigga superhero the LGBTQ+ community neither needs nor asked for in your discourse with us.
I suppose in an effort to save face, or else insult our intelligence, not sure which nor do I care, you use a term like "unusual" to describe your otherwise anti-Black first perspective and position in this VERY Black first space. Now, I'm not sure where you've been lately, but there's nothing unusual about your perspective. It's the exact approach and tactic we are subjected to from white supremacy. It's why and how they push ALL of their agendas the way they do. They toss on a cape for their chosen buffer classes, then defend, exalt and promote them as long as they help maintain the status quo. After they reward them for holding up their end of the bargain, they parade them around like some success story in an effort to denigrate, debunk and dismiss us black people who express the lack of fairness in a system that was made to either kill or incarcerate us. And all your arguments do is prove you're cooning for the LGBTQ+ movement. We explain why transgender females competing against biological females creates an unfair imbalance in the sport and you swoop in to tell us why we aren't "thinking outside the box." We posit why this will hurt black females because white men will now cry "I am woman hear me roar!" and scholarship opportunities that would and could have gone to our girls won't. And your response is some dismissive non-answer because deep down you want to live in a genderless world. So your use of "Unusual" to describe yourself isn't really accurate here, unless you meant you had the testicular fortitude to come to this platform and promote a known white supremacist anti-black agenda in an EXCLUSIVELY black first space; then ok, I'll concede that point.
Now I don't often get outright pissed off per se at any of the members in our online family. Frustrated maybe, because I understand we can and will all agree to disagree at some point or another. It's what family does. But what pisses me off with your response is the blatant admission that you're basically using us. The B1 agenda, philosophy and platform is just a means to an end for you. When Black folks are done doing any "heavy lifting", you'll toss up a deuces and go run to help the alphabet mafia push through their white supremacist agendas with no regard whatsoever to any negative impacts to black people. That's not family. That's not family at all, dude. That's what leeches do. That's what exploiters do. That's what white supremacists do. You got some fuckin' nerve to come in here with an alphabet first agenda in a black first space and try to suggest to us that we need to help them in an effort to help ourselves when they've done NOTHING but support white supremacy, it's racial caste system and play "oppressed" when it was fuckin' convenient for them.
Oh no. No sir. There'll be none of that at all. We'll be entertaining none of this kumbaya, my lord, we are the world bullshit at all. Been there, done that, it worked out well for everybody except us. We're done doing the same shit expecting different results. Ride with us and we'll ride with you.....otherwise kick fuckin' rocks.
It's not really "forward thinking". People have known about and have been teaching non-duality for thousands of years. I don't know if Childish Gambino and Frank Ocean have a non-dualistic thought process. Most of these black LGBT celebs would agree with me in regards to what exactly?I'm convinced that the "forward thinking" Childish Gambinos and Frank Oceans of the world would agree with you and your stance 110%. In fact, most of these Black LGBT celebs would agree with you.
Which doesn't necessarily mean anything because of unconscious bias. Anybody's ideas about me only exist in their own heads as with everyone.I notice the similarities in thinking.
I never even alluded to a belief in that. I believe the argument itself is a trap that keeps us thinking in binary but reality isn't binary.he also believes in much of, if not all of the same problematic things you believe in regards to matters such as transwomen "being women."
I try to look at the world from a non-dualistic lens (Intersectionalism is still dualistic) but I'm not perfect.You know, being "rebellious" in a safe, unthreatening way that people and corporations love, and looking at a world bigger than yourself through intersectionalist lenses.
this dualism u speak of very well said, not everything is black and white good or evil my team or your team more people need to start looking at things like that. In kmt we always knew there are good days and bad days ebb and flow sunrise sunset yin and yang. The dualistic way of thinking is very western that even reflect in there policy. For me to win you have to lose, ie capitalism ie white suppremecy. And for those saying that this hurt black female athlete think why there needs to be a scholarship for her to attend college to begin with. Seems thats more of an inditement on the system that on the T athlete. And even if its in that bs system why cant they make more scholarships.It's not really "forward thinking". People have known about and have been teaching non-duality for thousands of years. I don't know if Childish Gambino and Frank Ocean have a non-dualistic thought process. Most of these black LGBT celebs would agree with me in regards to what exactly?
Which doesn't necessarily mean anything because of unconscious bias. Anybody's ideas about me only exist in their own heads as with everyone.
I never even alluded to a belief in that. I believe the argument itself is a trap that keeps us thinking in binary but reality isn't binary.
I try to look at the world from a non-dualistic lens (Intersectionalism is still dualistic) but I'm not perfect.
KMT was conquered by Macedonia so yeah probably not the best nation to cite. You have to adapt not cling to shit that caused you to lose.this dualism u speak of very well said, not everything is black and white good or evil my team or your team more people need to start looking at things like that. In kmt we always knew there are good days and bad days ebb and flow sunrise sunset yin and yang. The dualistic way of thinking is very western that even reflect in there policy. For me to win you have to lose, ie capitalism ie white suppremecy. And for those saying that this hurt black female athlete think why there needs to be a scholarship for her to attend college to begin with. Seems thats more of an inditement on the system that on the T athlete. And even if its in that bs system why cant they make more scholarships.
I only thumbed up your post for the last paragraph even though I seriously disagree with your 1st paragraph. And I think you meant to say the word "de-integration" or use the word "separation?"i agree with finding the path for reparations black trauma etc but that is the fact of life there are trans people in this world since kmt. We need to find ways to deal with the issue at hand, and the only logical problem people say is because sports. So just find a cut off period that simple. For the girls saying they cant compete because of her male advantages i mean maybe but there like 10 percent trans people in the world. I doubt alot of them want to play sports. and a person who transitions before puberty i dont think u can point to any advantages they would have that a bigger girl wouldnt.
As far as black reparations i think it is going in a good direction just keep beating that drum and refusing to go to their work fight their fights use their buisnesses and support there artists and i bet it would be won in a year. Netflix beyonce dem would look at all the money they are losing and immediatly start making phone calls. I think that would force the conversation into the mainstream even harder. I think degegregation would be a good idea too getting our own leagues again etc would send a very clear message.
kmt lost because of the ruthlessness of europe i dont belive this is an inditement on that way of thinking or culture. the middle path win win soloutions will always be better than i win you lose soloutions. You can see the failure of this in americas foreign policy they have made so many enemies they dont know who is striking.KMT was conquered by Macedonia so yeah probably not the best nation to cite. You have to adapt not cling to shit that caused you to lose.
sis trans is a fact that ship has sailed u would have to go back in time and stop the technology its like having a problem with abortion or plastic surgery the technology is there people will use it and the alternative is suicide. I dont support physical transition i have no problem with a child putting themselves on blockers until they figure things out and making there decision at 18. Force um no hun you would have the choice to live however you want i think your not understanding the trans process. Your last statement is a fox news meme so i dont think there is any value in challenging it.I only thumbed up your post for the last paragraph even though I seriously disagree with your 1st paragraph. And I think you meant to say the word "de-integration" or use the word "separation?"
But it doesn't matter how many transpeople there are in the world, especially when the same world is trying to produce more transpeople or those who think they are trans. If you are not female, then you cannot compete with us or be housed in the same shelters as us.
As for males who transition before puberty, we will need a test trial to see if those males who lived without puberty will still outperform women or not. But I don't actually support children under 18 undergoing transitioning anyway. Too many very real, detrans horror stories. I'm so glad I was born in a time where me being a tomboy wouldn't have people and hack doctors turning to force me to transition into a boy in order to ironically adhere to the same "gender roles" and "social constructs" they keep bitching about tearing down.
And another thing....you also have too many "Stephen the Lesbians" and straight / bisexual males, who are either sicko pervs or opportunistic males, out here trying to cheat the system or trying to hijack our spaces for "easy sexual access" at our expense. They can hold their own nuts and "girl" dicks and advocate for themselves without hurting and erasing women and vulnerable children.
If you get your butt kicked you change your tactics. You don’t blame your attacker and then remain a sitting duck. You see how ruthless they are and be ready to return the ruthlessness back when needed.kmt lost because of the ruthlessness of europe i dont belive this is an inditement on that way of thinking or culture. the middle path win win soloutions will always be better than i win you lose soloutions. You can see the failure of this in americas foreign policy they have made so many enemies they dont know who is striking.
It's not really "forward thinking". People have known about and have been teaching non-duality for thousands of years. I don't know if Childish Gambino and Frank Ocean have a non-dualistic thought process. Most of these black LGBT celebs would agree with me in regards to what exactly?
Which doesn't necessarily mean anything because of unconscious bias. Anybody's ideas about me only exist in their own heads as with everyone.
I never even alluded to a belief in that. I believe the argument itself is a trap that keeps us thinking in binary but reality isn't binary.
I try to look at the world from a non-dualistic lens (Intersectionalism is still dualistic) but I'm not perfect.
We tried promoting unity, playing nice with everyone, fighting for everyone, turning our enemies and oppressors into our friends, trying to understand everyone, promoting pan-Africanism to non-FBA Black people, etc. Unfortunately, there was little success at best. White supremacy, its strategies and its tools must be defeated. FBA are all we have and the painful, daunting truth that rears its ugly head time and time is that we have no allies or friends. We cannot and will not waste any more time with others and their needs and wants. The white supremacist world made things "Black and white" and it will be a death sentence for us if we do not "Do or Die." We were forced in this position.this dualism u speak of very well said, not everything is black and white good or evil my team or your team more people need to start looking at things like that. In kmt we always knew there are good days and bad days ebb and flow sunrise sunset yin and yang. The dualistic way of thinking is very western that even reflect in there policy. For me to win you have to lose, ie capitalism ie white suppremecy.
White supremacy, the attack on affirmative action and opportunities for Black people, and the anti-Black racism in all forms of education, sports, and higher learning are all very real problems. That does not mean that we should not also call out the injustice caused by trans (many whom are white male) that is happening in women’s sports that many Black women participate and excel in. The trans issue is one of the many extensions of white supremacy and sexism towards women as well.And for those saying that this hurt black female athlete think why there needs to be a scholarship for her to attend college to begin with. Seems thats more of an inditement on the system that on the T athlete. And even if its in that bs system why cant they make more scholarships.
I dont believe so, i think you change your war strategy thats for sure you understand who your enemy is. Example one of my friends did me dirty but i didnt treat my other friends any different i just adjusted my heart or tacitcs to this one friend.If you get your butt kicked you change your tactics. You don’t blame your attacker and then remain a sitting duck. You see how ruthless they are and be ready to return the ruthlessness back when needed.
Let me ask you, who turned KMT monotheistic?
We tried promoting unity, playing nice with everyone, fighting for everyone, turning our enemies and oppressors into our friends, trying to understand everyone, promoting pan-Africanism to non-FBA Black people, etc. Unfortunately, there was little success at best. White supremacy, its strategies and its tools must be defeated. FBA are all we have and the painful, daunting truth that rears its ugly head time and time is that we have no allies or friends. We cannot and will not waste any more time with others and their needs and wants. The white supremacist world made things "Black and white" and it will be a death sentence for us if we do not "Do or Die." We were forced in this position.
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